All Blacks 2024
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
If test sides were chosen solely on Super Rugby form; greats like Nonu would have way fewer caps, we wouldn't need a selection panel and we'd have lost a lot more tests.
Despite c4l's post, I don't think anyone's suggesting that. In any case...any idea how Nonu broke into the team in the first place?
And in response - if super rugby form wasn't considered for test rugby selection, greats like Retallick/Smith would have way fewer caps and we wouldn't have won back to back world cups. Oh and we definitely wouldn't need a selection panel...
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@brodean weren't you just advocating for Riccitelli? To me he is totally a workrate guy? He's certainly not as physically powerful as Aumua, Taylor, or Samisoni.
Guys like Retallick and Whitelock are gold, because they have workrate and size.
I totally agree we have too many similar loosies, and need some size there. But who do we even have, really? Hoskins should have been picked, sure - but while he is reasonably physical, it's his skills that set him apart. Akira is leaving. I have a hunch you wouldn't be keen on Grace (and nor am I). Finau was picked and given a starter's chance.
There's some young fellas with potential, but nobody who has dominated at Super - in fact most of the other super loosies are similarly small aren't they? Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back? -
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back?
No
Will be 33 years old in 2027.
Has a very slim body of work to even justify re-signing him to NZRU, let alone through to the next WC.
I personally think he was unlucky to get that card in the WC final, but that doesn't excuse his complete lack of impact following that. We needed him to be big - especially after losing Cane - and he was an ant.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back?
No
I totally agree, but then who?
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
Have just been informed Ruben Love is out with a quad tear, expected to be a 4-6 week recovery. Unsure if/who anyone has been called into the squad in his place.
Makes sense. He had a huge ice pack on his thigh after the Shield game
I would imagine Perofeta takes his place and Plummer stays
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support player -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
The Blues props and hooker aren't as good, and Pat was a starter but has been injured. Darry has been called in.
Dalton vs Cane is neither here nor there (I'd go Dalton due to age myself).
Akira going overseas.
Hoskins competing with world player of the year.I strongly disagree with them not picking Hoskins, but the rest I don't find surprising really.
From a management perspective I’d have thought it might have made sense to ensure that we didn’t contemporaneously lose to Japan our two most physical 6s. So should had made it worth Akira’s while to stay at least until Frizzel returned.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean weren't you just advocating for Riccitelli? To me he is totally a workrate guy? He's certainly not as physically powerful as Aumua, Taylor, or Samisoni.
absolutely. But he's not competing with them; he's competing for the fringe role against Bell when there are injuries.
But the chance of shitting the bed in his core roles (throwing the lineout) is way lower than Bell's. And by not picking him the chance of him pissing off overseas goes up. No one would flinch if Bell was with the squad as a development project, but he's there on a full contract. If I was RR, I would be pissed and looking overseas because the path to Black seems blocked.
You're one injury away from the 3rd hooker coming on to throw some defensive lineouts a tthe end of a tight testmatch. I know who I'd rather have doing that role.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support playerIt’s interesting you mention Marx as pretty much everyone would agree that he is a far better player than Bongi.
But does he provide more impact/value in the last 35/40 minutes of the game as opposed to playing 55 minutes from the start?
Have to hand it to Rassie, he has been fine tuning this approach for 5 years and we are just now thinking how we can combat it.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support playerHave to hand it to Rassie, he has been fine tuning this approach for 5 years and we are just now thinking how we can combat it.
Some of the braindead shit that has come out of the AB camp over the past few years has pissed me off. You never know how much to believe it of course, but things like:
'we don't worry about the bomb squad tactics, we just worry about our own game', and re the 50-22 rule change: 'we haven't really looked at that, rugby is a simple game and we're focusing on our basics'. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
Papalii and Tuipulotu were starting until injury... and as an extension, the tight five has been perfectly fine. Samapeni Finau, Shannon Frizell, heck even Sotutu and Ioane in the past have shown that Super Rugby form does not always equate to ABs form - very different style of rugby.
If you think Ofa, Riccitelli, Renata, etc. are making a difference to the ABs, you're either an idiot or a Blues fan.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
That team would be one of the top 3 squads in AB history. Totally stacked, totally rooted our expectations
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@voodoo yep and I think when you look at that 1st 5 crisis thread, if you think we had Smith-DC-Nonu-Smith, 4 greats of our game together alot of the time, any that follow will always be poorer...I mean all 4 could have had a slightly off day and still as good as our current crops good day.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@voodoo yep and I think when you look at that 1st 5 crisis thread, if you think we had Smith-DC-Nonu-Smith, 4 greats of our game together alot of the time, any that follow will always be poorer...I mean all 4 could have had a slightly off day and still as good as our current crops good day.
One of them could have stayed in the dressing room and the other 3 still be as good as the current lot...
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I wonder what Umaga, McDonald, Mauger, Dermody, Plumtree, might have done had they been lucky enough to have had Whitelock, Barrett, Taylor and Mo'unga at Super Rugby level...
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
I remember our only complaint it was a bit boring around team naming , it picked itself
