Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky razor is the greatest coach in history before he even put coached a game for the ABs according to most
Jesus, you are repetitive. I'm sorry Robertson's had his way with your missus and all that, but the general consensus from sensible people on here is that Foster should not have been gifted the job because he had not ever had head coach success. In fact he had been a long-term failure at the Chiefs before Rennie turned it around in a year and won the comp. Nobody would have cared about that of course if he had been successful and/or we had been playing good rugby - but that didn't happen.
Robertson in contrast earned the chance through consistent on-field success as a head coach - that's a step in the right direction.
Of course some people were getting OTT with their hopes for Robertson turning things around overnight, but that's more due to the immense frustration with Foster than anything else. -
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Biorealism said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
He's Lelia Masaga in a crusaders jersey.
Super Rugby legend.
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@kpkanz I remember issues with red cards, injuries and erratic officiating decisions as impacting last year. The coaching team in 2023 certainly had a lot more issues to deal with than this year, but primed the players who very nearly won the world cup.
I find your contrasting views on the coaching regimes hard to understand. -
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky razor is the greatest coach in history before he even put coached a game for the ABs according to most
You left the full stop of that so I’ll complete the sentence for you. Add “ morons and imbeciles”.
I have yet to hear anyone say that.
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@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz I remember issues with red cards, injuries and erratic officiating decisions as impacting last year. The coaching team in 2023 certainly had a lot more issues to deal with than this year, but primed the players who very nearly won the world cup.
I find your contrasting views on the coaching regimes hard to understand.The world cup isn't everything, and what did we really manage: lost to France, beat Ireland (by 4 points) and Argentina comfortably, and lost a close final to South Africa.
So only the victory over a good Ireland and a brave losing effort in the final to speak of really. And that's with Retallick, Whitelock and Smith.
Tight games against other strong teams can go either way, it's small margins. We could just as easily have lost to Ireland by 1 point and the campaign would have been considered a disaster. -
@reprobate hook, line and sinker.
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Let’s be honest fosters era was not great , so it’s hardly a pass mark if it’s marginally better but still not that good
It may get to the point that makes us happy and I’m sure we all hope it does, but I think the jury is still well and truly out for now when we are sitting in the disappointing category
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Everyone's different but strong determined personalities have led the way for many teams.
Here's hoping guys like Sami, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard can pick up the baton and carry it forward. -
@Chris-B said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life Yep - Razor needs to get gametime into all of those Mako boys - it will be gross incompetence if he doesn't release Lomax, Blackadder, Hotham, Havili and Jordan for that game.
Lomax might be over-egging the pudding. The other four all need game time!
Blackadder has a niggle.
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@Chris-B said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life Lomax, TJ and Ardie aren't short of rugby - I'd be surprised if he releases them.
He probably won't release Jordan either - but, he should - Will's hardly played this year.
Razor won't release Blackadder unless the paddock is made of jello and finely ground eggshells.
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@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate hook, line and sinker.
You're a hooker, a pickup artist, or a dead weight??
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I can't believe people think this team is in the same class as the RWC one, theyre just babies and some tired hands, people! (A bit of overplay there).
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Clearly not good enough at the moment to worry the boks, the benches the big difference and some absolutely bone headed play at critical times. We couldn't catch or kick a ball either all day. Self combusted at important moments with silly mistakes. McKenzie isn't the answer at this level. The captain conspicuous by his absence. I'm not questioning the effort but the team just isn't gelling together and some of the selections appear baffling. Hopefully Razor can grow into the role but I don't think he should be given more than the year to get a team with some strong foundations under it, four year deal is a bit of a joke to me in professional sport, especially an untried one. Didn't even look like scoring a try all day. Props to the ref, thought he did a good job, not like the loon from the week before.
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I'd just like to add I find it actually incredulous that any coach can get a 4 year contract untested. What pressure does that put on the coach? Zero. Any professional in a high paid job has to be held accountable, there's no accountability and no pressure when you are just handed a deal like that. For me NZRFU is to blame here, it's obviously not a professional organisation when you are prepared to hand out a sweet deal like that. NZRFU should have offered a 1 year contract, with an 1 year option to extend based on clear performance goals, and those goals should not just be results based, but also have other qualitative assessments. It should be biased towards performance, but if there are other long term achievements, those should be included. I hope NZRFU have something built into their contract which makes the 4 years an easy get out and no cost otherwise this deal reeks of bias. If a coach doesn't want to exchange the risk of success for managing one of the world's most famous sports teams, then that person is the wrong person for the job. Anyway, rant over.
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Second half.
Jordie secures the kickoff. Good run by Sititi gets us outside the 22. McKenzie doesn't want the ball so narrows the available angle by passing to Jordie who punts downfield.
de Allende gets tackled by Vaa'i whose locking partner is straight over the ball and wins a penalty. McKenzie goes for a kick 56m out. Hits it wide and short.
South Africa comes out of the change shed with an entirely different game. Passing, running and finding space.
At 44 minutes a metre forward pass by Boks on halfway missed. Ought to have been Black scrum in centre of field. In context of game a huge miss by officials.
All Blacks scrambling in defence. Less than five minutes of play and South Africa replace a winger and hooker.
South Africa batter away at the line and Etzebeth is clearly short but advantage for Williams for being offside. South Africa try again from a maul formed off a lineout. All Blacks stop this one from moving forward, Marx goes off the back and is tackled immediately by Taylor. Cane comes in for a Kwagga style turnover but Carley says that's only permissible for players wearing green despite Cane leaving it as soon as he went off his feet.
South Africa try again and again their maul goes nowhere but a series of hitups around the corner results in South African Jesus doing enough between Cane and Ioane to stretch out and place the ball over the line. South Africa take the lead 10 - 9 with a successful conversion and TJP comes onto the field because quite clearly this has all been Ratima's fault.
To make room for ALB (why?), Ioane is moved to the wing. Ioane makes ground when someone finally passes him the ball and Jordie immediately gives away a penalty by flying into the ruck, going off his feet and cleaning out only himself. For some reason he looks mystified.
Malherbe, Weise and Pollard are tired, so they get a rest.
Contestable kick put up by South Africa and Jordan makes a reappearance only to not catch the ball. South Africa with a territorial gain. An attempted cross kick is charged down so the least worst starting wing (according to the All Black coaching staff) in Reece decides to grab the ball despite being clearly offside. South Africa with a penalty 40m out and Feinberg-Mngomezulu kicks it. Score widens to 13 - 9 in the 55th minute.
McKenzie again full of indecision, hands Jordie a hospital pass and South African Jesus obliges.
Lomax with an excellent turnover. Williams looks exhausted. ~30m out from South Africa's line and ~12 metres in from touch, Jordie manages to secure a lineout 20m out. Why is he kicking with that sort of accuracy? Some attacks that can't find space, we go back for a ruck penalty and Scott points to the posts. McKenzie kicks and the score narrows to a point. 13 - 12
20 minutes left and Beaudy comes on to replace Will Jordan who has done precisely fuck all as fullback. Jacobson comes on for Sititi which is an inspired substitution since he was doing more than Ardie...
le Roux is awarded a yellow card for a failed intercept as the All Blacks put together probably the best backline effort of the match so far. McKenzie hits the post, Jordie regathers and TJP throws a shitter of a pass to no one.
Hot on attack Scott decides a falcon is better than catching the ball and South Africa are relieved of pressure.
At some point Williams the halfback was replaced by homeless Sideshow Bob.
Feinberg-Mngomezulu misses a penalty attempt from halfway. 22 dropout and Elrigh Louw gets sat on his arse by Codie with some help from Jacobson. Vaa'i is immediately over the ball despite three South African forwards trying to clean him out.
Ardie takes the lineout and inaccuracy in setting up the maul results in South African scrum. Another chance goes missing.
Ofa's on for Williams. Lomax gets penalised despite Steenekamp pulling down and folding inwards at the scrum. South Africa moving slightly forwards so Carley blows that way. South Africa kick for touch and Vaa'i steals the lineout.
Steenekamp too slow to roll away and McKenzie with an opportunity 47m out and directly in front. Fucks it.
Lomax gets a soft yellow card as Kolbe runs into his shoulder and ridiculously is on referral whether it should be a red card. A blot on his copybook in an otherwise fine game as he didn't need to shift his weight which is all Carley needed to penalise him.
South Africa take the lineout maul option and again it's well repulsed by the Men in Black. Marx illegally changes his bind at the base, detaching and then reattaching, catches Reece napping and dives into the corner. Try awarded. Conversion is wide. Five minutes left and the score is 18 - 12
Kick off and a double knock on results in a Bok scrum. Feinberg-Mngomezulu waltzes between TJP and McKenzie, kicks ahead but the ball goes out inside NZ's 22. Camera pans to South African Jesus who has been replaced. Must've broken his other cheekbone.
Lineout won, TJP passes to McKenzie who passes to Ardie who decides it's best if he fights getting to ground so South Africa get more time to set up their defence. After Louw slows the ball down enough TJP gets to pass to McKenzie who
does something rather quite brilliantputs up a shit bomb which comes down on our 22 and South Africa have possession with less than four minutes left.Carley warns TJP that if he keeps talking he'll be sent from the field. Seems he didn't learn a fucking thing from the review of last week's effort.
A minute to go 70 metres and there is absolutely no organisation in play. One final chance with a penalty, the All Blacks go for the lineout. South Africa win it, boot it into row Z and that's the game.
So two weeks in a row the All Blacks are leading at halftime and lose. Vaa'i had a stormer of a game ably assisted by Taylor. Cane tackled and won a turnover. Sititi grew into the game. Ardie needs to be replaced because if he's not giving away penalties trying too hard, he's a handbrake. TJP needs to be told he can go to Japan early. McKenzie is worse than a waste of space - he provides no direction and puts others under pressure. Jordie is rocks and cubic zirconias. Jordan was invisible. Both replacement wings were poor.
Coaching Jesus has now lost two in a row to South Africa and failed to win the Rugby Championship. His selections and gameplans are mystifyingly bad. As shit as the Wallabies played this morning, the Bledisloe is in a precarious position. We've been sold a pup and the emperor has no clothes.
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@LagerLout said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Clearly not good enough at the moment to worry the boks, the benches the big difference and some absolutely bone headed play at critical times. We couldn't catch or kick a ball either all day. Self combusted at important moments with silly mistakes. McKenzie isn't the answer at this level. The captain conspicuous by his absence. I'm not questioning the effort but the team just isn't gelling together and some of the selections appear baffling. Hopefully Razor can grow into the role but I don't think he should be given more than the year to get a team with some strong foundations under it, four year deal is a bit of a joke to me in professional sport, especially an untried one. Didn't even look like scoring a try all day. Props to the ref, thought he did a good job, not like the loon from the week before.
I think they would have been plenty worried in both those games, then we finished very poorly.
McKenzie is the only answer we have, and while he's been around a long time he is not at all experienced in terms of starting 10 at the level of playing SA in SA. His play at 10 at super level has improved out of sight in the last two years, and I see more than enough in him to continue - even disregarding the lack of other options - if Mounga were available I would still stick with McKenzie, because his passing and vision has the potential to actually make us able to beat a rush defence consistently which has been our achilles heel for years.
Another way to look at it is: is there actually anyone else on the park who puts people in space? TJ does I guess, but his downsides in his core role outweigh that. Jordie doesn't. Rieko doesn't. BB doesn't. Jordan doesn't.And we scored tries the week before.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
Mate, what Foster did or didn't do 3 years ago has got bugger all to do with current AB problems.
We've gone from losing RWC 2023 to SA by one point with (14 men) to blowing a 27-14 lead at 68 minutes to lose 31-27 to SA. (And before you start throwing the "loss of experienced players" bullshit, both sides had 13 of their 23 at the RWC on that day)
How the fuck you regard that progress or proof that we're playing better rugby overall under Robertson is beyond me.
One could argue that being up 27-14 against SA is progress, compared to I'm pretty sure never leading in the RWC final.
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Our young forwards should be proud of what they achieved against SA.
Overall the backs fell short. -
THey didn't set much of a platform. Lack of possession and lack of phase play. Same as in the first test. The backs created most of the points from the first test off zero phase play.
It was a mixed bag from the forwards. Some good stuff and some ordinary stuff.
