All Blacks 2024
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NZ defiant on overseas-player debate
New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson says there will be no changes to the All Blacks' selection policy regarding overseas-based players, despite increasing calls for a review.
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
B -
I think in general the bench in pro rugby is still an area that has a heap of untapped potential.
Coaches want impact from the bench.
Coaches want coverage from the bench.
In a lot of cases I don't think Coaches have a great understanding of what goes behind getting great performance out of your bench.
There doesn't seem to be a genuine strategy to the AB bench
ALB and Telea are a prime example. ALB looks far better at 12 but is on the bench to cover 12/13/wing. Telea is on the bench to cover both wings but has been in poor form the past few months and doesn't have history of being a strong bench performer.
Let's say Beauden and Rieko were on the bench. I could see the thinking there. Beauden has a history of strong bench performances and Rieko's speed and power could suit.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader you can't ignore that getting thrown in for random minutes here and there is hardly ideal. Makes for great canon fodder for the casual observer though.
Razor wasted opportunity to give some of the bench meaningful reps in earlier games but sending them all out together and letting run around a bit
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
I think in general the bench in pro rugby is still an area that has a heap of untapped potential.
Coaches want impact from the bench.
Coaches want coverage from the bench.
In a lot of cases I don't think Coaches have a great understanding of what goes behind getting great performance out of your bench.
There doesn't seem to be a genuine strategy to the AB bench
ALB and Telea are a prime example. ALB looks far better at 12 but is on the bench to cover 12/13/wing. Telea is on the bench to cover both wings but has been in poor form the past few months and doesn't have history of being a strong bench performer.
Let's say Beauden and Rieko were on the bench. I could see the thinking there. Beauden has a history of strong bench performances and Rieko's speed and power could suit.
Back in the day we prided ourselves on our bench, just the way the Boks do now. The drop between the starters and the bench is far too steep, somehow they have to either find better players, change the combinations, or change the plan to suit the personnel they do have
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@Brandon said in All Blacks 2024:
New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson says there will be no changes to the All Blacks' selection policy regarding overseas-based players, despite increasing calls for a review.
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
BInteresting take, and I think I can definitely agree with all of the above having a net positive effect in the short term. The longer-term implications, I haven't really figured out. The common view is that selecting plyers from overseas will lead to an exodus of all our best players. And while this might increase the pool of professional players available for selection, the overall compounding effect will be gradually to reduce the quality of talent coming through because (a) those young guys playing in NZ will not get exposed to the best players available, (b) this will then affect their development, (c) this will reduce the overall number of guys heading overseas as the overall quality goes down, (d) this will also reduce interest in our domestic comps because of an overall lack of quality (c.f. the NPC), (e) this waning interest will manifest itself in less people playing rugby and which will further compound (c) above, and (f) this will all result in the gradual worsening of our quality over time at All Black level.
I can certainly see the logic in this view, but I am not sure if this is exactly how it would play out because, so long as (1) young kiwi blokes can earn good coin somewhere in the world playing pro rugby, but (2) playing rugby domestically in NZ is the best vehicle for them to begin their journey and get the exposure to earn that coin, then there should always be some kind of pipeline of talent coming through.
And, in any case, our AB level stocks are already waning, and we already select guys who have been playing overseas.
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It's pretty simple with the overseas based players debate. If we want our comp turning into virtually the NPC at Super level, then yeah, allow everyone to play overseas.
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@Brandon very interesting that Victor Matfield while reflecting on their change to allow overseas players picked believed that it had increased their player pool by not only picking overseas players but also exposing younger players to senior rugby more quickly. He said it was a win win. I would be open to explore the rule which allowed 40 game All blacks the ability to go overseas and be picked after 40 games for the ABs.
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it wasn't an issue when Super was the top comp in the world - so going north meant going to play a lower grade of footy. Now Super is off the pace; players coming back are stars rather than 'also rans'. The season alignment is also a headache (NH/SH).
I'm philosophically opposed to robbing Super of ABs to let them play away - you lose all control of them for playing minutes, training, style of game etc. NZR are minnows internationally (business-wise); we have to leverage everything we've got to be competitive.
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@nzzp to be honest I am not sure what to do but I do feel a little bit envious watching South Africa be able to choose from all over the World while there
Players get big pay days from other unions. Would it mean we get to invest more money and pay higher rates for our up and comers here? I need to see all the facts. The scary thing as Mentioned above is we don’t have the population to sustain what other countries can, so it could turn into a terrible mistake. -
Another whinge about loosie selection.
We have seven in squad: Cane/Paps/LJ/Bladder/Finau/Sititi/RD.
Let's assume we justify:
2 7s
2 6s
2 8s
1 jack of all trades (since we've gotten a pair of each already)So Cane/Paps
Finau/--
RD/Sititi
Bladder/LJMade problems for ourselves.
Akira ought to be there and one of Bladder or LJ.
So far LJ has only been selected to start against Fiji. Great man but superfluous.
For me the 23 would be a step up with Akira at 6. In which case Paps could have covered injuries to him or Cane.
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@pakman Agreed, but I'd go further.
You only really need one of Cane/Dalton to start, as the other isn't a good bench option. Cop a bad injury and you bring the other one into the squad - they both have plenty of experience with the ABs and can slot in easy. That's not the case with the back-ups at 6 and 8, which should be Finau and Hoskins.7: Cane (or Dalton)
8: Savea, Hoskins
6: Akira, Finau
Utility/bench: Blackadder
Development: Sititi. -
I have the feeling that Tosi will leapfrog Newell in the pecking order before the EOYT, as the latter is nowhere to be seen in the loose. It would bring size upfront to compensate (partially) for the lack of size of the loose forwards. At lineout time, it's better to have a tall prop lifting a smallish LF than a small prop lifting a smallish LF.
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@Boston-Boy said in All Blacks 2024:
@Brandon very interesting that Victor Matfield while reflecting on their change to allow overseas players picked believed that it had increased their player pool by not only picking overseas players but also exposing younger players to senior rugby more quickly. He said it was a win win. I would be open to explore the rule which allowed 40 game All blacks the ability to go overseas and be picked after 40 games for the ABs.
This is one of the thoughts I had too - a bigger pool of professional players to choose from, which surely gives a short term improvement. Longer term is the bigger question, but I just don't know the answer to that.
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@Brandon said in All Blacks 2024:
New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson says there will be no changes to the All Blacks' selection policy regarding overseas-based players, despite increasing calls for a review.
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
BThat's a great take and I like the younger players being given a chance angle. Be interested to know what you think the downsides are?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Id tell the canes to start playing Love at 10 next season.
I think there’s a strong likelihood that might happen. He’s shown the selectors what he can do at fullback, if he can play just aswell at 10 his stocks will rise massively.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Id tell the canes to start playing Love at 10 next season.
I think there’s a strong likelihood that might happen. He’s shown the selectors what he can do at fullback, if he can play just aswell at 10 his stocks will rise massively.
Himself and Cam Roigard could form a nice little partnership. Get plenty of reps in.
