Secret Super rugby review: Axe a team from Australia and South Africa

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mikedogz" data-cid="609201" data-time="1472200450">How many of the Force and Rebel players are actually local products of their rugby systems?</blockquote>
 
It's a low percentage, but some are quite good

hurricane

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="609218" data-time="1472201525">It's a low percentage, but some are quite good</blockquote> What is the Rebels player Jordie Reid's background, was he a local product? I have a man crush on him and wish he was in the AB wider training group and don't know why he isn't in the Australian squad as a back up player.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hurricane" data-cid="609254" data-time="1472203934">
<div>
What is the Rebels player Jordie Reid's background, was he a local product? I have a man crush on him and wish he was in the AB wider training group and don't know why he isn't in the 
Australian squad as a back up player.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Sydney boy - similar to George Smith in terms of pathways via Manly rugby club etc. He's a hard-nosed unit, that's for sure.
 
<img src="https://melbournerebels.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Jordy-300x300.jpg" alt="Jordy-300x300.jpg">

hurricane

Thanks for that NTA. Australia seem to have the best depth in the number 7 shirt in the world and always seem to have as far back as I can remember. I think I have chatted with a few aussie fans before about it and they told me that in high school rugby it is a very coveted playing position. While in NZ everyone aspires to be a number 10 or a number 8. I do hope that Australian rugby finds a spring in its step. I think all of the Wallabies are very humble blokes and they are a good advertisement for their country.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hurricane" data-cid="609263" data-time="1472205609">
<div>
Thanks for that NTA. Australia seem to have the best depth in the number 7 shirt in the world and always seem to have as far back as I can remember. I think I have chatted 
with a few aussie fans before about it and they told me that in high school rugby it is a very coveted playing position. While in NZ everyone aspires 
to be a number 10 or a number 8. 
I do hope that Australian rugby finds a spring in its step. I think all of the Wallabies are very humble blokes and they are a good advertisement for 
their country.
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</blockquote>
Nah, I think that is rubbish and clouded by your man crush on that dreadlocked Rebel, we've always had as much depth at 7 as the Wallabies, just that our number 1 was so far ahead of the pack and they tend to give all of theirs a test jumper at some time or another. Considering we tend to convert 6s to 8 these days I highly doubt 8 is our favoured position.

Mokey

I hope they reduce the team numbers and return to the old system of each team playing each other once, then quarters/semis/finals. I know the travel sucks, but has to be better than the current clusterfuck competition that drags forever and stops and starts for the international window.
 
The conferences are a joke. It is fucking ridiculous to watch NZ teams playing NZ teams over and over, and the winner of the Aussie conference getting a spot when this year that conference was just dire. Ditto for the Chiefs playing a woeful Stormers in South Africa and the home team getting spanked - they hadn't even played ONE NZ side all year.

hurricane

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="609264" data-time="1472206152">Nah, I think that is rubbish and clouded by your man crush on that dreadlocked Rebel, we've always had as much depth at 7 as the Wallabies, just that our number 1 was so far ahead of the pack and they tend to give all of theirs a test jumper at some time or another. Considering we tend to convert 6s to 8 these days I highly doubt 8 is our favoured position.</blockquote> I think you are completely underselling Reid. He is a quality number 7. McMahon is also "isn't bad". That gives Australia 4 International quality number 7s. Hooper, Pocock, Reid, McMahon not to mention Gill isn't bad either and by memory it was gill who had the most turnovers out of Australia's number 7s last year. Who does New Zealand have - Cane? I would have Hooper and Pocock ahead of him anyday. Behind Cane we have Savea who is very good I guess, but then who Matt Todd...Major LOL. I distinctly remember a super match towards the end where a wellington player ran straight over the top of him and Todd looked like chump.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hurricane" data-cid="609266" data-time="1472207165">
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I think you are completely underselling Reid. He is a quality number 7. McMahon is also "isn't bad". That gives Australia 4 International quality number 7s. 
Hoopah, Pocock, Reid, McMahon not to mention Gill isn't bad either and by memory it was gill who had the most turnovers out of Australia's number 7s 
last year. Who does New Zealand have - Cane? I would have Hoopah and Pocock ahead of him anyday. Behind Cane we have Savea who is very good I guess, but then who 
Matt Todd...Major LOL. I distinctly remember a super match towards the end where a wellington player ran straight over the top of him and Todd looked like chump.
</div>
</blockquote>
You're out of your fucking mind.

hurricane

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="609268" data-time="1472207784">You're out of your fucking mind.</blockquote> Computer says no.

hurricane

Cane won't even be the starting AB number 7 two years from now. His decision making as evidenced in silly penalties he takes in super rugby alone indicate he is not a disciplined player.

mariner4life

Hurricane you're talking massive quantities or rubbish

hurricane

Well whatever. At least I don't rate players just because they wear a black jersey. Cane is destined to be a journeyman player at best. Pocock in his prime was being discussed as being on par with an ageing McCaw. Both Hoopah and Pocock are distinctly better players than Cane is. Cane just happens to be on the winning team so somehow that makes him better. Anyway I am majorly outnumbered and have an unpopular opinion and you guys aren't even debating me you are just firing pot shots so yeah...I don't think on retrospect it is a wise thing to come on to a web site for NZ fans and tell them a player in the AB team isn't number one in the world in his position.

mariner4life

That old chestnut is not going to cut it. You've made the call, back it up. So far it's an opinion on the future, and fuck all else. 
In what ways are pooper both better than cane? How are their backups all better than savea and todd?

hurricane

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="609276" data-time="1472209197">That old chestnut is not going to cut it. You've made the call, back it up. So far it's an opinion on the future, and fuck all else. In what ways are pooper both better than cane? How are their backups all better than savea and todd?</blockquote> You won't like the source as it is green and gold - but the stats analysis is clear - Cane lagged behind the others in most dimensions from a stats point of view (turnovers, penalties conceeded etc) in the Super Rugby Comp this year <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/by-the-numbers-wallaby-openside/'>http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/by-the-numbers-wallaby-openside/</a>

hydro11

I hardly think it is that ridiculous to think that Pocock/Hooper are better than Cane. There are a lot of people who seem to think that every single All Black is better than every single Wallaby. I just don't think that is the case. If that is the case then there would almost be no way I could see us losing on Saturday. A lot of people on here don't like Pocock's "style" because he is always looking for the turnover and is a weak tackler. Okay. How much better would those turnovers look if he was turning the ball over and giving it to Barrett? Would Cane look anywhere near as good as a Wallaby?

mariner4life

That's so shit. All kiwi defenders of an overseas player always fall back on the "nz supporters never see others as being any good"line. 
Pocock is huge over the ball, but it's his only trick. He's slow, a passive tackler, and has little ball skill. 
Hooper is quick, and a breakdown menace. But isn't physical, and tends to go missing out wide for large periods of the game. I'm still waiting to see what his real strength is. 
Both are penalty magnets. 
What puts them ahead of Cane again?

reprobate

those stats say cane gives away more penalties than hooper or pocock.
 
cane is a great tackler, and has a great motor. he's quite a different player to either of those guys.
 
i've said it before and i'll say it again - if pocock was playing in our pack, he would be regarded as incredible, because our other players would make up for his deficiencies. he would get more turnovers, and we would simply slaughter teams on the counter-attack with that turnover ball - and he'd get the credit for that.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="609283" data-time="1472210800">
<div>
That's so shit. All kiwi defenders of an overseas player always fall back on the "nz supporters never see others as being any good"line. 
Pocock is huge over the ball, but it's his only trick. He's slow, a passive tackler, and has little ball skill. 
Hoopah is quick, and a breakdown menace. But isn't physical, and tends to go missing out wide for large periods of the game. I'm still waiting to see what his real strength is. 
Both are penalty magnets. 
What puts them ahead of Cane again?
</div>
</blockquote>
Well, Hurricane posted evidence that Cane gives away more penalties than both of them. If you want to provide stats to the contrary, go ahead.
 
I would also add that Pocock is very intelligent and good in the rolling maul.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="609285" data-time="1472211318">
those stats say cane gives away more penalties than Hoopah or pocock. 
cane is a great tackler, and has a great motor. he's quite a different player to either of those guys. 
i've said it before and i'll say it again - if pocock was playing in our pack, he would be regarded as incredible, because our other players would make up for his deficiencies. he would get more turnovers, and we would simply slaughter teams on the counter-attack with that turnover ball - and he'd get the credit for that.</blockquote>
 
Nah, he'd be expected to actually have a running game and to do something other than nick pill. I reckon there are plenty of players that could get plenty more steals if that's all they were assigned to do. 
Pococks finest moments have been pretty much those games when his team is getting pumped and he stems the tide with his steals. I would hope we would never need a player like that for the abs.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="609295" data-time="1472213308">
<div>
Nah, he'd be expected to actually have a running game and to do something other than nick pill. I reckon there are plenty of players that could get plenty more steals if that's all they were assigned to do. 
Pococks finest moments have been pretty much those games when his team is getting pumped and he stems the tide with his steals. I would hope we would never need a player like that for the abs.
</div>
</blockquote>
nah i reckon we'd be glad to have him. there is no other player who is as strong over the ball as him. partially that's because he is a midget, which negatively impacts other parts of his game, but nobody else can do what he does, as well as he does. if our guys could, then surely they would turn it on when we were under the pump?
 
he's also a very reliable defender in general - does not miss many tackles, and as mentioned by hydro, effective in the maul. it all depends on the skills you decide to prioritise in a position. owen franks is a shit ball runner, but so what.
 
the problem the aussies have is balance. if they had a read, kaino, coles etc to cover the ball-running, and a retallick, whitelock, read combo for the lineout, and beauden barrett using the ball he won, he'd be an opposition's nightmare. you seem to want him to do everything by himself before you'll rate him. 
 
the best game i've seen pocock play was knocking the saffas out in 2011. he won that game pretty much by himself.

The Silver Fern

Secret Super rugby review: Axe a team from Australia and South Africa