NZR review
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@Tim said in NZR review:
So Sky will stop paying for NPC games after next year, and the result on here is ... crickets ...
I'm waiting for an official announcement, not the word of the Sweatie journo. But then I go to the home NPC games.
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@mariner4life said in NZR review:
@Tim said in NZR review:
So Sky will stop paying for NPC games after next year, and the result on here is ... crickets ...
As was predicted many times, by insisting on having no losers you make everyone a loser.
but i have been assured that people love the NPC and the crowds don't matter only the TV
Well TJ was the one saying that often - and pre Covid the NPC was the third most viewed Sky sport after ABs and Super.
Has viewing dropped off that much since then? Or is this all part of the current politics going on in NZ rugby.
Ah well, I guess I save money not having to outlay for Stan all year round now.
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@mariner4life Imagine the tragedy of a competition where your team couldn't play Southland, Manawatu, Counties, and Otago every year!
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@Tim said in NZR review:
@Nepia Now you take TJ seriously?
When he's not commentating (Cantabs, Ta$man and Blues) and discussing his workplace I didn't see any reason not to take him seriously
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@Tim said in NZR review:
Let her go ahead and do it. Would she be a big loss? Although these quota's might be a factor
And this doesn't seem unreasonable. 3 out of 9. Why is this such a big issue
The Herald understands that Reddy, not for the first time, told the provincial unions that if they continue to push alternative proposals that seek to maintain at least three New Zealand Rugby board members with at least two years’ experience on a provincial board, she could not support it and would, therefore, resign from her post.
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@Tim said in NZR review:
@Nepia I find it difficult to believe that NPC has more viewers than NRL.
That's because of the hype of machine of last year. The Warriors always get ok viewership, awesome last year, but the rest of the comp generally doesn't.
There was a Ray Morgan report from pre-covid which I had somewhere, NPC had more viewers (in it's short period) than the 20 whatever week NRL
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@Tim said in NZR review:
@Nepia Do you have a link? Because right now you have a vaguely remembered claim from the idiot "TJ" that dates back to "pre-covid". I find that rather uncompelling.
Sorry, I didn't say TJ said that about the NPC and NRL, he just said good viewership at the dinner I saw him at. There was a dash in my original post separating the response to Mariner and the comment about viewership in regards to the NRL.
Here I'll hunt it down for you.
2018, a year earlier than I thought.
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@Bovidae said in NZR review:
@Tim said in NZR review:
So Sky will stop paying for NPC games after next year, and the result on here is ... crickets ...
I'm waiting for an official announcement, not the word of the Sweatie journo. But then I go to the home NPC games.
I will wait official announcement, but I'm kind of torn both ways.
Without sky pulling strings we will have a lot more day games , much better for crowds, and also think we will find it getting picked up by FTA. There has already been hints that NPC comp wants a tie in with FTA/TVI. Who are getting into sports with cricker etc. -
@Dan54 said in NZR review:
Without sky pulling strings we will have a lot more day games
Good point. More family friendly and better weather.
If this happens Sky will lose subscribers but they will have done the maths and probably save money. They've already pissed off the Netball community.
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The provinces could end up streaming their home games. Add a few more cameras more than they do for club rugby.
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At $400000 per match, I'm not surprised they are stopping televising. That's crazy money
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Also
“One company comes along and says ‘here’s nine people but none of them have built a house before but trust us we know what we’re doing’. The next company comes along and six haven’t built a house but three have had some association with building a deck. The final company has three licensed builders with 10 years’ experience. Common sense says you pick the final company.
“The same logic applies here.”
Yeah because running a multi million international product is exactly the same as building a deck. This really shows why provincial admin need to step back, they really are provincial
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On the NPC v NRL chat, the big difference is that Sky's costs for the NRL would be considerably less because Sky are also in charge of producing the broadcast for the NPC, whereas they would largely just be buying the rights for NRL matches.
So even if the benefits of broadcasting the NPC slightly outweigh the benefits of broadcasting the NRL, the costs are incomparable.
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
At $400000 per match, I'm not surprised they are stopping televising. That's crazy money
I would think there an extra zero on that somehow.
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@Dan54 Nope, multiple cameras, set ups for TMO etc, transport of all the gear. It's ridiculously expensive to do a full coverage.
EDIT: sorry that includes player payments, coverage is only 200k. I just remembered the 400k
"In round figures this amounts to a per match cost of $200k, not including player payments.” ..."Average paying attendance is 2000 tickets"
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feels like an opportunity to set up even a single camera streaming service, lower leagues of EFL dont get full coverage so have the iFollow app which is far from perfect but i still pay to watch it rather than not at all
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I hope the provincial unions fight like hell to keep their three members. Don't throw it away as they will never get them back
And I hope Reddy leaves too. And takes her diversity (discrimination) views with her.
“For me it's being honest, it's being upfront with the provincial unions in the first instance, but also the wider rugby stakeholders - and indeed the public - to say that one of the principles that I firmly believe in is the time is right to have not only a diverse board, not only a board that has the opportunity for constructive feedback from a wider range of stakeholders, but a board that has that an independent position, all appointed through the same appointments process.
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I think this is the start of NZ rugby circling the drain from a financial perspective.
SANZAR fell apart and SA took their money with them, super rugby can't seem to viably grow outside of Aus and NZ.
NPC folding for financial reasons which will have wider ramifications on the game than we seem to think it will.
It just looks like a bad course, with no good news.
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The New Zealand Rugby (NZR) Board has today publicly released a proposal to change the sport’s leadership structure and create generational change for the game.
Board Chair Dame Patsy Reddy has presented the Board’s Governance model to NZR’s voting members, the 26 Provincial Unions and the New Zealand Māori Rugby Board (NZMRB).
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Small mercies. I'm glad the sport of rugby became unwatchable before NZ rugby financially tanked. Otherwise I'd have been gutted about this sort of news, rather than being totally indifferent to it.
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i think NZR has a lot of answer for over the last 25 years....they've pushed the idea that only the topflight/highest level is worth our time to watch, we should compare local club rugby to the AB's and laugh at how much worse they are...rather than encouraging us to enjoy all levels for what they are
I was talking to this american dude a few years ago, he was from a city (i cant remember which one) that didnt have a professional sports team (not NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB)...but was still multiple hundred thousand size....i asked who he supported and he had a soft spot for teams in each comp....but he said he went to local high school and college/uni games and loved it, memberships, travelled to away games every so often...he enjoyed the sports in general rather than worrying about how "good" they were....thats where we should have gone for the fans whilst encouraging the players to be there best
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@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
thats where we should have gone for the fans whilst encouraging the players to be there best
a beautiful sentiment that runs straight in to the reality of
Spend 4 months supporting the Chiefs. Then go support Bay of Plenty. While at the same time watching the All Blacks. And maybe a club as well. Same sport begging for you to support 4 different teams.
Throw in supporters who say shit like "I refuse to watch Hawkes Bay if they don't have their best players playing for them" and administrators are fucked.
You are so close to the best outcome. Play all the levels at the same time, be fucking realistic about what they are. DON'T, what ever you do, just turn them all in to glorified preseasons for the other level. Don't make the season convoluted by switching from comp to comp to comp.
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@Rapido said in NZR review:
Small mercies. I'm glad the sport of rugby became unwatchable before NZ rugby financially tanked. Otherwise I'd have been gutted about this sort of news, rather than being totally indifferent to it.
So why are you bothering to comment on it? Where and when did NZR financially tank? I must of missed something.
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@Dan54 they say NZ rugby....which i take as in the PU's or at least rugby outside the top flight...rather than NZR, and the point is fair given several unions have had financial troubles in the last 20 years
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@Kiwiwomble I understand that a few PUs have struggled a bit over the years, hell I was on a PU board in the 90s, and we were always on borderline then. But to say NZ rugby has tanked etcis a bit of a stretch. I know the trendy thing on forums is to make everything be end of the world, but wanna know something it's not. Same as posters suggesting that NPC is to be scrapped, just finding anything negative and using that.
And according to Rapido the game is unwatchable, yet here we are on a rugby based forum, why be on it if you don't watch the game? -
@Dan54 you may no more than i if you've been involved personally....but looking for the outside, a couple of gone into administration or gone very close and my understanding is their finances are heavily dependant on NZR...a business that cant operate on its own...well...."tanked" might be a bit of an exaggeration...but i dont think a huge one
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@Bovidae said in NZR review:
The New Zealand Rugby (NZR) Board has today publicly released a proposal to change the sport’s leadership structure and create generational change for the game.
Board Chair Dame Patsy Reddy has presented the Board’s Governance model to NZR’s voting members, the 26 Provincial Unions and the New Zealand Māori Rugby Board (NZMRB).
thanks for that.
Reads like a classic consulting document. Basically the words are 'deep knowledge of rugby' but the process screams non-rugby people all the way.
Made me think about who owns NZR. I think it's the PU - all 27 (26?) of them. There's a strong argument for a split between pro and non-pro; leave pro to do what they want with Super, ABs, etc, make a call on NPC one way or another, and then administer most of the game for the benefit of the players and unions.
Professional should be there as the shop window generating funds for the rest of the participants. NPC is literally there to facilitate PU putting teams together and playing each other.
Really not super impressed (pun not intended)
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@Winger said in NZR review:
@Tim said in NZR review:
Let her go ahead and do it. Would she be a big loss? Although these quota's might be a factor
And this doesn't seem unreasonable. 3 out of 9. Why is this such a big issue
The Herald understands that Reddy, not for the first time, told the provincial unions that if they continue to push alternative proposals that seek to maintain at least three New Zealand Rugby board members with at least two years’ experience on a provincial board, she could not support it and would, therefore, resign from her post.
Agree. What is this independence BS? Why would you ever expect Provinces to step away from being on the board of the NZRFU? It’s not like they are the executives running the day to day. It would be like asking your major shareholders not to be on the board.
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@nzzp said in NZR review:
@Bovidae said in NZR review:
The New Zealand Rugby (NZR) Board has today publicly released a proposal to change the sport’s leadership structure and create generational change for the game.
Board Chair Dame Patsy Reddy has presented the Board’s Governance model to NZR’s voting members, the 26 Provincial Unions and the New Zealand Māori Rugby Board (NZMRB).
thanks for that.
Reads like a classic consulting document. Basically the words are 'deep knowledge of rugby' but the process screams non-rugby people all the way.
Made me think about who owns NZR. I think it's the PU - all 27 (26?) of them. There's a strong argument for a split between pro and non-pro; leave pro to do what they want with Super, ABs, etc, make a call on NPC one way or another, and then administer most of the game for the benefit of the players and unions.
Professional should be there as the shop window generating funds for the rest of the participants. NPC is literally there to facilitate PU putting teams together and playing each other.
Really not super impressed (pun not intended)
I fully understand employing specialists but you never give up your spot on the board.
What I am hearing now is the desire to have a NRL type Super rugby season - presumably with teams from Japan, America etc and maybe another NZ team - removing our tiered competition structure, and paying the elite rugby players more ( John Kirwan, Jeff Wilson ) At that point the game would truely be over for Provincial rugby. It’s a dangerous game. I am not sure that NZRL is better off now than before the NRL took over the running of their game.
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Now it seems that everyone is unhappy, the PUs, the players, and even the panel.
Among other groups unhappy with today’s proposal is the panel who put forward last year's recommendations. They are reportedly insulted and hugely disappointed that many of their recommendations haven’t been adopted, to the point that they refuse to publicly support NZR, despite Dame Patsy's requests.
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@Bovidae said in NZR review:
Now it seems that everyone is unhappy, the PUs, the players, and even the panel.
Among other groups unhappy with today’s proposal is the panel who put forward last year's recommendations. They are reportedly insulted and hugely disappointed that many of their recommendations haven’t been adopted, to the point that they refuse to publicly support NZR, despite Dame Patsy's requests.
Well if they did support NZR as it stands , it would make their recommendations pointless, as they are the ones who recommend change!. Samr as Nichols suggesting board resigns, he suggested that on tv, because then they would force the changes they want because a new board would be required etc, and he hoped it would be under new system.
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Given Patsy has done nothing but piss everyone off during this process, I think her offer to walk away is one that should be taken up.
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Reflecting again on this, it feels like there's a fundamental mismatch of objectives. The PU have been sticking their fingers into the professional game, and honestly I don't think they are right to do so. But the board you need to run a pro comp is not the board you need to foster the growth of the game across the amateur. This feels like the pro/amateur split really daylighting.
The control from NZR philosophically is horrific. They won't let franchises do too much, control everything, but don't have a separate board or operational arm actually making good decisions. Super has gone backwards since it was created.
I think I'm coming around to splitting; any downsides I am missing?
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The problem with splitting and making the NPC purely amatuer is that the quaility of it - on and off the field will decrease noticably.
Players wont get paid and will go elsewhese, admin, coach's etc wont get paid and will go elsewhere also.
The quality of rugby will decrease across the board, across all aspects.
It's sad we can't make the current model work as it's a really good pathway for players and admin, coach's alike to get to the top level.
But as I say - we can't make enough money to make it work and have to cut the NPC. The beast is slowly dying.
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The Players Association has been good throughout this
NZR board agreeing to one thing and then backing away is no surprise. They are spineless
Certain PU's fighting in personal self interest is no surprise either. I would note that there's been comments that a few PU's are pretending to speak on behalf of all PU's. However there are PU's who fully support the recommendations
Here's a short Rob Nichol interview from this morning:
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