Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606197" data-time="1471470085">
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If it was Wylie still coaching it would be. Or more. He was a joke (as was Hart)
 
All I'm pointing out is it does seem a little strange that the Crusaders have so many. including the very average Crotty and Dagg. whereas the top team can only mange 1. I'm sure if the opposite happened to the winning Crusaders with a Canes head coach you would wonder a bit. Maybe the head coach is selecting based on provincial loyalties
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When you actually put more then 5 seconds thought into it as Username did, you come up with:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Username" data-cid="606185" data-time="1471468924">
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<strike>Dagg</strike> > Marshall
<strike>Crotty</strike> > Halaholo
<strike>Read</strike> > Vito
<strike>Whitelock</strike> > Fatialofa
<strike>Franks</strike> > May
<strike>Crocket</strike> > Uhila
 
Uh-huh.
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You are taking the piss if you think any of those Canes players should be starting for the ABs.

KiwiMurph

Yes the Hurricanes should also be the most represented NZ Super Rugby team on the All Black bench...oh wait..

Canerbry

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606197" data-time="1471470085">
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If it was Wylie still coaching it would be. Or more. He was a joke (as was Hart)
 
All I'm pointing out is it does seem a little strange that the Crusaders have so many. including the very average Crotty and Dagg. whereas the top team can only mange 1. I'm sure if the opposite happened to the winning Crusaders with a Canes head coach you would wonder a bit. Maybe the head coach is selecting based on provincial loyalties
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WOOOO that's some shitposting.
 
TIL Crotty and Dagg are "very average" and Whinger hasn't watched any rugby this year.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606197" data-time="1471470085">
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If it was Wylie still coaching it would be. Or more. He was a joke (as was Hart)
 
All I'm pointing out is it does seem a little strange that the Crusaders have so many. including the very average Crotty and Dagg. whereas the top team can only mange 1. I'm sure if the opposite happened to the winning Crusaders with a Canes head coach you would wonder a bit. Maybe the head coach is selecting based on provincial loyalties
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I wouldn't wonder at all to be honest. To me it doesn't matter what province or franchise they play for, or what their hairstyle is and if they like hip hop music. That's because I don't have intricate knowledge of the AB gameplan what specifics they are looking for in a player in each position to complement the other team members. 
 
I don't mind the discussion, but at least put up some alternatives that might back up where this bias might lie. Crotty average, okay, there are two Chiefs in the squad that are the alternatives. Dagg average, okay, but the only alternative is a Canes player who has been below average.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="606208" data-time="1471471602">
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Yes the Hurricanes should also be the most represented NZ Super Rugby team on the All Black bench...oh wait..
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On a serious note, the bench is spot on for this test IMO. I think Paddy T will be saved for the Boks. I like Squire's versatility and plus the coaches will want to see if he can step it up a notch.
 
I thought TJP turned a corner in those finals matches. Played with great temperament, which has been a criticism. If he can continue that then he could see a little bit more playing time and that could help Aaron Smith a bit.
 
Cruden is too classy a player to leave out of a 23 when he's fit.
 
I would have Savea over the other two rookies going into the first test of a 4 Nations. 
 
Hames, injury forced. Congratulations to him
 
Taylor, injury forced, but he's been in the set up a bit now and hasn't put a step wrong IMO.

Nepia

Interesting team, even though that midfield was the one that was likely to be top one at the start of the season it looks a bit weak.
 
Good to see Hames in the side, especially as we were all wondering where he was when the Super teams were named.
 
I'm finding it interesting that Cruden's impact off the bench is being questioned when we don't actually know what it would be like as he's barely done it before.
 
Squire has obviously been impressing the powers that be in camp.
 
Surprised that Harris seems to have jumped Taylor - a few starring roles on the wing for the Chiefs seems to have advanced his cause.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="606123" data-time="1471453110">
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2003 Mauger maybe not, 2007 Mauger & I think we win.
 
Hell, 2007 Weepu would have at least tried a droppie from one of the 300 ruicks we had on the line.
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In 2007 with Mauger we may not have been close as it was the guy playing in his position was pretty key to our tries.
It's all speculation anyway, Mauger may have been happy to go with McCaw's plan to go for a penalty/try, it's not like there weren't other fairly senior backs on the field at the time who didn't tell them to set for a droppie.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606197" data-time="1471470085">
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All I'm pointing out is it does seem a little strange that the Crusaders have so many. including the very average Crotty and Dagg. whereas the top team can only mange 1. I'm sure if the opposite happened to the winning Crusaders with a Canes head coach you would wonder a bit. Maybe the head coach is selecting based on provincial loyalties
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Really there are 2-3 Canes starters as Coles would be starting if fit and ready as would NMS. The Canes are not helped by the fact that Jane, Vito, Halohalo & Marshall won't be selected as they are off, plus are Fifita and Bear even eligible?
 
I'd love to know which Canes players were overlooked? If anything J.Savea was bloody lucky to make it given he can't even start at Super level and warranted a forgettable 10 minute stint after the game was all but gone.
 
Hansen must have incapacitated Fox and Foster in the selection room and faxed the team through himself I guess.

mariner4life

Fuck, are we STILL having a discussion over 2007? Really? Have any of you fluffybunnies who reckon Mauger would have won us the game ever fucking watched it? Jesus, that's stupider than Wingers dribble. 
 
 
Well, that's a team, isn't it? Lots of big names, and then you look at some areas, and it looks like NZ A. Of all the outs, we'll miss Coles the most, his work on attack, and most importantly his very accurate lineout throwing. 
 
The bench is a massive surprise. No lock (good, Romano is shit), a newbie prop, an out of form winger, an out-and-out 10. 
 
 
I still think we'll win ( i always think that) but i look forward to this place if we lose, heaps of stuff to throw stones at

mimic

Interesting to see ppl talking about Cruden not being an ideal impact player from the bench..
He's been riding the pine behind Carter for ages.. No1 said anything about him adding impact from the bench then.. 
 
I don't think the amount of Cantab ABs mean anything about Hansen's bias.. I think it just goes to show how bad a coach Blackadder was.. He couldn't win even if he had Carter and McCaw :whistle:

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606228" data-time="1471475527">
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Fuck, are we STILL having a discussion over 2007? Really? Have any of you fluffybunnys who reckon Mauger would have won us the game ever fucking watched it? Jesus, that's stupider than Wingers dribble. 
 
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If you were Dr. Who, any changes you could go back and make to that 2007 team for the final couldn't make things much worse. We could only lose by more. You could pick me at first five instead of Dan Carter - it couldn't get much worse.
 
Actually, that's not a bad plan. I'd get completely creamed in the first tackle and then they'd replace me with Nick Evans and this time he mightn't get injured in the first 30 seconds.
 
I should be a timelord - and an AB first five!

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606164" data-time="1471466629">
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So starting by super rugby team
 
Crusaders 6
H/Landers 4
Cheifs 3
Blues Canes 1 each
 
You would think the Canes were the worst team based of these numbers. And the Crusaders easily the best
 
(I wonder where the head coach hails from)
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Based on your meltdown last year when Sopoaga was left out (you know, when you said that even if the ABs won the RWC with DC at 10, it'd just be luck), I'll take this post as a good sign.
 
A couple of little surprises in the 23 but most of it was predictable. Very happy for Hames and to see that Cane has recovered from the Stormers and Canes thuggery. Interested to see how Barrett goes at international level coming off a good season, hopefully he can keep up his form. Still not convinced Fekitoa is the right option at centre or that TJP won't shit the bed coming off the bench but I can always hope.
 
Only thing that confuses me is the three props and only two backs on the bench. Seems like overkill.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="606242" data-time="1471476979">
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Only thing that confuses me is the three props and only two backs on the bench. Seems like overkill.
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Cheeky
 
The question marks on the bench really do seem to revolve around the backs - can TJP take his recent form to the AB bench, can Cruden provide an impact, can Savea at least show some signs of heading in the right direction.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606228" data-time="1471475527">
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Of all the outs, we'll miss Coles the most, his work on attack, and most importantly his very accurate lineout throwing. 
 
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Coles is the best white running back we've had since JK :)
 
Coles has shown that he has this ability to turn nothing into something with his running game and offloading ability. Plus he's a workhorse around the track in defence. Easily In our top 5 players over the last couple of seasons.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606238" data-time="1471476557">
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If you were Dr. Who, any changes you could go back and make to that 2007 team for the final couldn't make things much worse. We could only lose by more. You could pick me at first five instead of Dan Carter - it couldn't get much worse.
 
Actually, that's not a bad plan. I'd get completely creamed in the first tackle and then they'd replace me with Nick Evans and this time he mightn't get injured in the first 30 seconds.
 
I should be a timelord - and an AB first five!
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
I would bring Dougie on to the wing, he may have turned one of the other earlier breaks in to a try by appearing on the right shoulder, as always. But even that is scratching. Maybe bringing Lauaki in even though it would have been a late call up after his suspension was overturned?
 
Here's a question, if we had won 2007, would we have won 2015? Those veterans that made it may not have gone on if we had already gone back to back.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606250" data-time="1471477959">
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
I would bring Dougie on to the wing, he may have turned one of the other earlier breaks in to a try by appearing on the right shoulder, as always. But even that is scratching. Maybe bringing Lauaki in even though it would have been a late call up after his suspension was overturned?
 
Here's a question, if we had won 2007, would we have won 2015? Those veterans that made it may not have gone on if we had already gone back to back. 
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Not enough Cantabs. Just sayin...... :)

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606250" data-time="1471477959">
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
</div>
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Eh? When did it stop being Wayne Barnes?
 
Leon was more 2003ish "fullback playing centre" wasn't he? :)
 
I think if Sir Ted wins in 2007 he probably quits early and takes Hansen and Smith with him.

ACT Crusader

2007 World Cup - "the loss we had to have" "when NZ grew up and reappointed the losing coach"

mimic

if we won in 07, we would've had deans as coach and we would've ended up with the cantablacks and a quota of brown fellas in the team..

canefan

I'm pretty happy with what we got from the 2007 for 2011 and 2015 trade. Still hate that Willis Barnes though ;)

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="606260" data-time="1471479064">
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2007 World Cup - "the loss we had to have" "when NZ grew up and reappointed the losing coach"
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We had already "grown up" in 2003 because the coaching team were getting a bullet regardless of the result - plus the NZRU got cleared out after the sub hosting debacle. Smith's resignation in 2001 and willingness to take an assistant role in December 2003 were also watershed moments that got us away from the binary RWC win/loss, macho nonsense.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606257" data-time="1471478768">
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I think if Sir Ted wins in 2007 he probably quits early and takes Hansen and Smith with him.
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I honestly think individually they had no idea. They were clearly looking past France, but I doubt they even once looked onto 2008. Shag was back in NZ with his dying mother half the tournament too. Smith was always enigmatic with staying or going within the set up and we don't know how early and deep the blood feud between Deans and Hansen went. Most importantly we don't know what kind of a lure the 2011 RWC at home would have been - something they wouldn't have considered until the dust had settled.
 
After the 2005 season Lions tour and Grand Slam combo, then the near perfect 2006 season and the off field culture changes made after 2003 I think there was already a pride/sense they were building something pretty special and bigger than just a single RWC win. I think there would have been a real desire to not "do an England" and the band would have come back. I also don't think Ted would've retired that early if he got a sniff that it would have gifted it to Deans over Hansen - I think he wanted succession. But we are only guessing at this point.
 
Morbidly I would have enjoyed it if Ted retired and then Smith and Deans both applied, but not Hansen. Really would have given the black and red faithful a puzzle that couldn't be solved with the traditional method!
 
The only career that would be appreciably different if we won in 2007 assuming he wasn't injured in the QF is Dan Carter. For me he splits much earlier than he did, ditto if uninjured in 2011 - even as early as his first sabbatical for good. The rest of the stalwarts Woodcock, Mealamu & McCaw were lifers. Mauger and McAlister had already signed overseas before the cup - so Nonu and Smith happens regardless. Maybe Mils goes a year or two earlier?

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)