Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)

mariner4life

Fuck, are we STILL having a discussion over 2007? Really? Have any of you fluffybunnies who reckon Mauger would have won us the game ever fucking watched it? Jesus, that's stupider than Wingers dribble. 
 
 
Well, that's a team, isn't it? Lots of big names, and then you look at some areas, and it looks like NZ A. Of all the outs, we'll miss Coles the most, his work on attack, and most importantly his very accurate lineout throwing. 
 
The bench is a massive surprise. No lock (good, Romano is shit), a newbie prop, an out of form winger, an out-and-out 10. 
 
 
I still think we'll win ( i always think that) but i look forward to this place if we lose, heaps of stuff to throw stones at

mimic

Interesting to see ppl talking about Cruden not being an ideal impact player from the bench..
He's been riding the pine behind Carter for ages.. No1 said anything about him adding impact from the bench then.. 
 
I don't think the amount of Cantab ABs mean anything about Hansen's bias.. I think it just goes to show how bad a coach Blackadder was.. He couldn't win even if he had Carter and McCaw :whistle:

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606228" data-time="1471475527">
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Fuck, are we STILL having a discussion over 2007? Really? Have any of you fluffybunnys who reckon Mauger would have won us the game ever fucking watched it? Jesus, that's stupider than Wingers dribble. 
 
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If you were Dr. Who, any changes you could go back and make to that 2007 team for the final couldn't make things much worse. We could only lose by more. You could pick me at first five instead of Dan Carter - it couldn't get much worse.
 
Actually, that's not a bad plan. I'd get completely creamed in the first tackle and then they'd replace me with Nick Evans and this time he mightn't get injured in the first 30 seconds.
 
I should be a timelord - and an AB first five!

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606164" data-time="1471466629">
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So starting by super rugby team
 
Crusaders 6
H/Landers 4
Cheifs 3
Blues Canes 1 each
 
You would think the Canes were the worst team based of these numbers. And the Crusaders easily the best
 
(I wonder where the head coach hails from)
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Based on your meltdown last year when Sopoaga was left out (you know, when you said that even if the ABs won the RWC with DC at 10, it'd just be luck), I'll take this post as a good sign.
 
A couple of little surprises in the 23 but most of it was predictable. Very happy for Hames and to see that Cane has recovered from the Stormers and Canes thuggery. Interested to see how Barrett goes at international level coming off a good season, hopefully he can keep up his form. Still not convinced Fekitoa is the right option at centre or that TJP won't shit the bed coming off the bench but I can always hope.
 
Only thing that confuses me is the three props and only two backs on the bench. Seems like overkill.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="606242" data-time="1471476979">
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Only thing that confuses me is the three props and only two backs on the bench. Seems like overkill.
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Cheeky
 
The question marks on the bench really do seem to revolve around the backs - can TJP take his recent form to the AB bench, can Cruden provide an impact, can Savea at least show some signs of heading in the right direction.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606228" data-time="1471475527">
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Of all the outs, we'll miss Coles the most, his work on attack, and most importantly his very accurate lineout throwing. 
 
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Coles is the best white running back we've had since JK :)
 
Coles has shown that he has this ability to turn nothing into something with his running game and offloading ability. Plus he's a workhorse around the track in defence. Easily In our top 5 players over the last couple of seasons.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606238" data-time="1471476557">
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If you were Dr. Who, any changes you could go back and make to that 2007 team for the final couldn't make things much worse. We could only lose by more. You could pick me at first five instead of Dan Carter - it couldn't get much worse.
 
Actually, that's not a bad plan. I'd get completely creamed in the first tackle and then they'd replace me with Nick Evans and this time he mightn't get injured in the first 30 seconds.
 
I should be a timelord - and an AB first five!
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
I would bring Dougie on to the wing, he may have turned one of the other earlier breaks in to a try by appearing on the right shoulder, as always. But even that is scratching. Maybe bringing Lauaki in even though it would have been a late call up after his suspension was overturned?
 
Here's a question, if we had won 2007, would we have won 2015? Those veterans that made it may not have gone on if we had already gone back to back.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606250" data-time="1471477959">
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
I would bring Dougie on to the wing, he may have turned one of the other earlier breaks in to a try by appearing on the right shoulder, as always. But even that is scratching. Maybe bringing Lauaki in even though it would have been a late call up after his suspension was overturned?
 
Here's a question, if we had won 2007, would we have won 2015? Those veterans that made it may not have gone on if we had already gone back to back. 
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Not enough Cantabs. Just sayin...... :)

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606250" data-time="1471477959">
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that game really was the perfect storm of shit wasn't it? jesus.
 
I thought we had already accepted it was all Leon MacDonald's fault anyway?
 
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Eh? When did it stop being Wayne Barnes?
 
Leon was more 2003ish "fullback playing centre" wasn't he? :)
 
I think if Sir Ted wins in 2007 he probably quits early and takes Hansen and Smith with him.

ACT Crusader

2007 World Cup - "the loss we had to have" "when NZ grew up and reappointed the losing coach"

mimic

if we won in 07, we would've had deans as coach and we would've ended up with the cantablacks and a quota of brown fellas in the team..

canefan

I'm pretty happy with what we got from the 2007 for 2011 and 2015 trade. Still hate that Willis Barnes though ;)

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="606260" data-time="1471479064">
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2007 World Cup - "the loss we had to have" "when NZ grew up and reappointed the losing coach"
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We had already "grown up" in 2003 because the coaching team were getting a bullet regardless of the result - plus the NZRU got cleared out after the sub hosting debacle. Smith's resignation in 2001 and willingness to take an assistant role in December 2003 were also watershed moments that got us away from the binary RWC win/loss, macho nonsense.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606257" data-time="1471478768">
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I think if Sir Ted wins in 2007 he probably quits early and takes Hansen and Smith with him.
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I honestly think individually they had no idea. They were clearly looking past France, but I doubt they even once looked onto 2008. Shag was back in NZ with his dying mother half the tournament too. Smith was always enigmatic with staying or going within the set up and we don't know how early and deep the blood feud between Deans and Hansen went. Most importantly we don't know what kind of a lure the 2011 RWC at home would have been - something they wouldn't have considered until the dust had settled.
 
After the 2005 season Lions tour and Grand Slam combo, then the near perfect 2006 season and the off field culture changes made after 2003 I think there was already a pride/sense they were building something pretty special and bigger than just a single RWC win. I think there would have been a real desire to not "do an England" and the band would have come back. I also don't think Ted would've retired that early if he got a sniff that it would have gifted it to Deans over Hansen - I think he wanted succession. But we are only guessing at this point.
 
Morbidly I would have enjoyed it if Ted retired and then Smith and Deans both applied, but not Hansen. Really would have given the black and red faithful a puzzle that couldn't be solved with the traditional method!
 
The only career that would be appreciably different if we won in 2007 assuming he wasn't injured in the QF is Dan Carter. For me he splits much earlier than he did, ditto if uninjured in 2011 - even as early as his first sabbatical for good. The rest of the stalwarts Woodcock, Mealamu & McCaw were lifers. Mauger and McAlister had already signed overseas before the cup - so Nonu and Smith happens regardless. Maybe Mils goes a year or two earlier?

KiwiMurph

Wallabies named
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">

Wallabies team to face New Zealand on Saturday August 20, 8:05pm AEST ANZ Stadium

1. Scott Sio (18 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (105 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (66 Tests)
4.Kane Douglas (23 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (62 Tests)
6. Ben McCalman (48 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (54 Tests)
8 David Pocock (56 Tests)
9. Will Genia (66 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (30 Tests)
11. Dane Haylett-Petty (3 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (102 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (34 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (114 Tests)
15 Israel Folau (41 Tests)

Reserves

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau (64 Tests)
17. James Slipper (77 Tests)
18. Allan Alaalatoa* (0 Tests)
19. Dean Mumm (46 Tests)
20. Scott Fardy (33 Tests)
21. Nick Phipps (42 Tests)
22. Matt Toomua (32 Tests)
23. Rob Horne (32 Tests)
 
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Chris B.

Agree that it's all speculation. I guess if Sir Ted wanted to carry on, the job would have been his. Not sure Hansen would have quite had the profile to see off Robbie in a one-on-one in 2007, though I think it's pretty clear that Robbie had a few guys in high places who weren't supporters.
 
I don't think there would have been too much puzzling in R&B circles in a contest between Smithy and Robbie. Smithy had had his turn in the top job.
 
Overall, things can't be improved on too much since 2007, so I think we should be pretty happy with how things have panned out. Doubtless quite a few rugby fans who died between 2007 and 2011 who wouldn't agree.

NTA

McCalman ahead of Fardy is interesting. 
No Mitchell also interesting.

mariner4life

um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606316" data-time="1471486525">
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um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn. 
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Winger told me our B team would beat Australia so I'm not worried...

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606316" data-time="1471486525">
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um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn. 
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</blockquote>
 
It's sort of a "must win" for Chieka.
 
We've had our changing of the guard:
 
2015: ASmith, Carter, Savea, Nonu, CSmith, NMS, BSmith
 
This test: ASmith, Barrett, Naholo, Crotty, Fekitoa, BSmith, Dagg
 
Current everyone fit and at their best: ASmith, Barrett (maybe Cruden), Savea, Ngatai, SBW, NMS, BSmith
 
Point is - if we lose this one - in Sydney - we've got places to go to get better, including going home. If Chieka loses, I'm not sure where he can get better in the short term.
 
I can see Oz winning this - especially if our forwards don't smash them up front.

antipodean

Doesn't Ben McCalman play eight for the Force? Why move him to blindside and take Fardy (who plays blindside) to the bench to accommodate a number eight that is the antithesis of Zinny?

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)