6N 2024 England v Wales
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Outmuscled
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Thought the English FB deserved motm.
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Well a win is a win I suppose. We actually showed a bit more attacking intent, though in truth it was Ford's kicking game that got us over the line. Discipline was in marked contrast to Wales in the first half but this collapsed under pressure for Wales, which got us back into it.
So yes a W in the record books and we are 2 from 2 but we could easily have lost both those games and it was Italy and then this is not yet a vintage Wales team.
I'm a bit more encouraged by the intent but nowhere near happy about where we are and still unsure about the direction we're going. The acid tests are to come and it will be interesting to see if we keep that same degree of attacking intent when we are really under the cosh.
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@akan004 said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
Cunningham-South looks good. How did we let him go?
Because he's not a PI?
I'll get my coat.
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@Billy-Tell said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
Thought the English FB deserved motm.
Personally I would have written
I’ll have the Salmon
Air Steward -
Like geriatric porn, that was difficult to watch.
I think Williams at 9 is a major handbrake on Wales' attack. Service is so bloody slow.
England's defence was pretty effective containing the one-out stuff in channel 2, but shit the bed if Wales found space wider - Welsh attack too flat to counter it for long parts of the game.
England had all the territory in the first 15 and did fuck all with it. Right now they lack the ability to put enough pressure on in attack.
Lots of change in both sides so mixed performances always on the cards.
Ford isn't the most flashy 10 in the world but he turns up and does the work. Mitchell is good, and having Danny Care available to close out a game is probably the best thing they've got.
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@NTA said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
Like geriatric porn, that was difficult to watch.
I think Williams at 9 is a major handbrake on Wales' attack. Service is so bloody slow.
England's defence was pretty effective containing the one-out stuff in channel 2, but shit the bed if Wales found space wider - Welsh attack too flat to counter it for long parts of the game.
England had all the territory in the first 15 and did fuck all with it. Right now they lack the ability to put enough pressure on in attack.
Lots of change in both sides so mixed performances always on the cards.
Ford isn't the most flashy 10 in the world but he turns up and does the work. Mitchell is good, and having Danny Care available to close out a game is probably the best thing they've got.
Weirdly Williams was excellent off the bench last week
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@MiketheSnow said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
@NTA said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
Like geriatric porn, that was difficult to watch.
I think Williams at 9 is a major handbrake on Wales' attack. Service is so bloody slow.
England's defence was pretty effective containing the one-out stuff in channel 2, but shit the bed if Wales found space wider - Welsh attack too flat to counter it for long parts of the game.
England had all the territory in the first 15 and did fuck all with it. Right now they lack the ability to put enough pressure on in attack.
Lots of change in both sides so mixed performances always on the cards.
Ford isn't the most flashy 10 in the world but he turns up and does the work. Mitchell is good, and having Danny Care available to close out a game is probably the best thing they've got.
Weirdly Williams was excellent off the bench last week
Perhaps when he is fresh and everyone else is tired, it's a different story.
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It's funny how we can all see things differently. A mate was incensed about the refereeing yesterday, me less so. Now he is a reasonably knowledgeable rugby guy and not prone to whinging, so I respected his viewpoint and today went over the mildly (in my view) contentious moments as well as the general run of the decision making.
My conclusion on the lop-sided penalty count - 6(E)-0(W) in the first half and then England only giving away 1 in the second half with Wales racking up a few was that England gave away some dumb penalties in the first half. Nothing to do with the refereeing, just individual stupidity in the main. Conversely I felt that in the main the Welsh penalties in the second half was down to pressure. So overall no complaints.
The contentious points were the three yellow cards, the penalty try that was, the penalty try that wasn't and the charged down kick and on review I felt the officials got most of it right.
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Chessum's yellow. First contact was to the ball but there was shoulder to head. Mitigted by him getting pretty low and Assirati dropping further due to Underhill's tackle. Direct head contact with mitigating circumstances. Penalty and a yellow. All good.
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Roots yellow. He clearly brought down the maul close to the line. Definitely a yellow.
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That penalty try. Here I'm not s sure it was a PT as both Earls and Itoje were locked on to the ball legally, so I'm not sure that a try would have occurred. Penalty only for me. Moot point though as Wales were likely to have score from the resultant penalty as England could not afford a further infringement at that point.
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The charged down kick. The law (8.14 from memory) states that the defending players can jump or charge down once the kicker has moved in any direction in his approach to the kick. Ford took a step to the left so the correct decision. Ford too busy concentrating on running down the clock IMO.
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Grady's yellow. Deliberate knock on with England hot on attack around the 22. Clear penalty and a yellow.
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Penalty try for the knock on? IMO Wales had enough cover coming across to make the try a far from clear cut opportunity. Correct decision.
All in all not a bad performance from the officiating team. We're all quick to bag them when they shit the bed so equally we should acknowledge when they have a decent showing.
Win or lose, I'd have had no complaints.
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Agree with most of that, except the charge down conversion. If you watch Ford’s set up in other kicks he quite often takes that step to the left once he’s walked back - he doesn’t then begin his run up - for me it’s part of getting in the right position, not the beginning of him approaching the ball. Glad we didn’t lose by a point.
Also think the non penalty try should have been a pen try, I don’t think the cover was far enough across and Steward had a run in plus had a man outside him for a two on one if required. IMO a try would probably have been scored - which is the law isn’t it?
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@Dodge yeah but the ref shouldn't have to study Ford's kicking style. He stands and lines it up, then takes a step to the left, to what...line it up again? That's how most kickers begin their approach. If it quacks like a duck then go for it I say.
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No complaints from the refereeing whatsoever
We had an opportunity to secure victory when England were down to 13
We didn't, we lost
More fool us
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@Bones said in 6N 2024 England v Wales:
@Dodge yeah but the ref shouldn't have to study Ford's kicking style. He stands and lines it up, then takes a step to the left, to what...line it up again? That's how most kickers begin their approach. If it quacks like a duck then go for it I say.
Yep, fair point.
