RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Foster, as with Hansen circa 2019 before him, didn't seem to grasp what IMHO constitutes a winning style of rugby since the last cup. Foster's early teams played a helter skelter brand that felt like a poor imitation of the free running style that won us the cup in 2015. But it didn't work when we came up against England in Yokohama, and it won't work now. I think winning rugby for us is solid setpiece, an improved kicking game in terms of distance kicking and kick and chase, direct running in the forwards and midfield which can allow us to quickly recycle and open space to set our outside players free. Take points on offer to develop scoreboard pressure that forces our opponents into mistakes when they have to chase the game. If Razor can bring some or all of this I'll be happy
the only thing i would add is not being afraid to grind out points, if we're up against a big defensive team then accept we might need to put 10-20 phases together and not boot it away if we dont open them up after 3-5 phases
edit: exactly like we did against ireland, as you say
Zero turnovers vs Ireland wasn't it? That stat shows we can do it
Zero? Sam Whitelock says hello ...
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
tinarse
Not sure that's a thing ...
The apparent tinarsednece was down to his pace.
Sevu Reece had that same ability to be in the right place to make the ball bounce just right.
Jordan kind of does too.
Lose that pace and do you retain that tinarse ability. Or do you turn in to Cullen v2003?
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
I've mentioned it several times, SA know what they are playing. They could play like the ended the game because they were in front. If they were behind I believe they'd have been stuffed. But they never were
Foster and Cane, and anyone else that was making decisions on the night, should have it etched onto them, "Kick your kicks, get ahead and make the saffas chase you"
you think that would help the kickers not miss?
You can't miss if you don't try
Channelling your inner Wayne Gretzky: you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
Boks played a game which with no TMO they lose heavily. But there is a TMO, with some very arbitrary protocols, and their game lets them beat inferior teams if the TMO lottery goes their way.
That happened twice in knock out rounds.
It’s a bit pointless trying to praise their game plan in isolation, because if the TMO calls go against them they are almost certain losers.
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With so many punters saying South Africa are deserved winners, I wonder what they would say had Jordie's kick gone over? Terrible team, losing to a 14 men ABs? Springboks performance would have been the exact same, the outcome completely different. In theory, it should not change what you think of the team, but we all know they would be labelled extreme chokers.
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@booboo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Foster, as with Hansen circa 2019 before him, didn't seem to grasp what IMHO constitutes a winning style of rugby since the last cup. Foster's early teams played a helter skelter brand that felt like a poor imitation of the free running style that won us the cup in 2015. But it didn't work when we came up against England in Yokohama, and it won't work now. I think winning rugby for us is solid setpiece, an improved kicking game in terms of distance kicking and kick and chase, direct running in the forwards and midfield which can allow us to quickly recycle and open space to set our outside players free. Take points on offer to develop scoreboard pressure that forces our opponents into mistakes when they have to chase the game. If Razor can bring some or all of this I'll be happy
the only thing i would add is not being afraid to grind out points, if we're up against a big defensive team then accept we might need to put 10-20 phases together and not boot it away if we dont open them up after 3-5 phases
edit: exactly like we did against ireland, as you say
Zero turnovers vs Ireland wasn't it? That stat shows we can do it
Zero? Sam Whitelock says hello ...
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Three according to this. Not many for a test
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BTW I think we should be taking our hats off to ABs pack, and in particular fatties.
Sure Boks were shagged by two tough games, and sure Bongi was a huge loss, but:
Lineouts were dominated, albeit Codie overexcited a couple of times;
Scrums nullified the Boks. In fact I thought I saw a tighthead! Perhaps Jordie’s power did it?!
Bomb squad defused. Nepo, Sami and The Mighty Williams monstered them in last scrum;
Mauls pretty even.
Individually:
BBBR well on top of EE; Big Sam bested Ereira Snyman, both front rows didn’t budge an inch and Scooter was Scooter.
Awesome, awesome, awesome. -
Far too much for me to read here, but one thing I have read is old Brer Smith’s scathing critique on rugbypass.
He stated that under Foster they did not attempt a single drop goal. Hard to believe, but if true it shows how dumb they’ve become. Jordie can drop them from a 1 degree angle ffs.
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@Tordah said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
With so many punters saying South Africa are deserved winners, I wonder what they would say had Jordie's kick gone over? Terrible team, losing to a 14 men ABs? Springboks performance would have been the exact same, the outcome completely different. In theory, it should not change what you think of the team, but we all know they would be labelled extreme chokers.
Those talking up SA are pretty silly, but it's not too uncommon for people to overrate the winning team. Now they are apparently the greatest clutch team ever if you are to believe the experts, when in fact they couldn't score against 14 from the 34th minute. That's the reality, but it doesn't mean that we didn't choke at crucial moments either. Both teams choked but I would not be happy with the ABs if we couldn't put away a 14 man team fairly comfortably. Jordie kicks it and the narrative is completely different.
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@Tordah Jordie should scored 5 tries if the Malmesbury missile missed his tackles.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17j2kkl/pietersteph_du_toit_astonishing_performance_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button -
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman Thats a bit far stretch, its like saying England will win every test if there isnt a ref?
Let me put it another way, If two of the top four are playing and one team gets a red in first half, they're going to lose 95% of the time. The tactics of the oppo mainly determine how long it takes to overtake them.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman well the Boks lost PSdT (also nr7 and also Barnes as ref)against France at Marseilles last year early and they came pretty close. 26-30. Pretty sure the coaches have their plan for this.
Yes. I was 100% on their side that night after card. But it remains the case that it’s almost certain defeat at top level.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Tordah Jordie should scored 5 tries if the Malmesbury missile missed his tackles.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17j2kkl/pietersteph_du_toit_astonishing_performance_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_buttonI thought he'd sparked himself out on #25
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman well the Boks lost PSdT (also nr7 and also Barnes as ref)against France at Marseilles last year early and they came pretty close. 26-30. Pretty sure the coaches have their plan for this.
Yes. I was 100% on their side that night after card. But it remains the case that it’s almost certain defeat at top level.
Yeah, and I think Dupont got sent off in that match too.
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If the NZRU has any gumption they'll pay the win bonus.
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@booboo said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Just an interesting what if...What if SA had beaten Ireland and we face them in the QF. Would have been fascinating to see how that game went down.
So many what ifs.
We win or lose v France, we get to play Ireland or South Africa, or South Africa or Ireland.
Who knows.
What if Barnsie had ruled Sammie did not clearly release ... or had his hands on the ground ... or SA had beaten us in the hypothetical QF...
That QF is, on reflection 2.5 weeks later, one of my absolute favourite All Blacks, and therefore sporting, moments. And I'll enjoy that for what it was.
It's all what ifs. So many games decided by less than a score this RWC.
And in the end it was 1 point.
Am so proud of our guys that I really don't mind (I care but I don't mind) that we lost.
This is the attitude I took into the final (or rather tried to keep in mind.)
Felt so blessed to have supported the Boks as they showed sheer balls and street smarts in manufacturing back to back wins over the magnificent hosts playing in front of a roiling cauldron of passionate fans and against the swirling wind, pelting sheets of rain and an obdurate reffing team very much feeling the pressure from those same heartbroken, angry fans.
Felt greedy and ungrateful to ask for more from them than to go out and deliver a game they could be proud of. They did that and more.
As a temporary AB supporter for the Irish game, I reckon they also earned @booboo’s satisfaction and pride in their World Cup performance.
They were immense in rooting the Irish and fronted one of the all time big match teams for 80 minutes, blunting one of the best packs ever to set foot on a pitch, found a way to pierce its previously impregnable Finals defence twice, kept Kolbe and KLA from ripping even a single try from the cold Stade air and we’re so disciplined that they only gave Pollard’s Championship winning boot four measly swings at goal.
In the end, those four chances were one too many.
When the boot is on the other foot, as it will be soon enough, please remind me to take huge pride in the boks’ performance and that the bitterness of the vagaries of the weather, the bounce of the ball, reffing and the whims of the Rugby Gods are there to make the wins all the sweeter.
