RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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Yup (not the Cane stuff, but the big game management - lack off)
The All Blacks still don't understand World Cups despite what Carter taught them
The second half was all New Zealand which is why in the end they have no excuses to rely on. Once the dam broke and the All Blacks' found a try through Beauden Barrett, the game was there for the taking for the All Blacks.
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@Duluth said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The person doing that in the last couple of years was Clarke. When he went out of the xv nobody replaced that role
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiPie said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Beauden's opening kickoff was poor (it was neither short and contestable or hanging and deep allowing us pin them back) and then i'm reminded of Beauden in space around halfway in the first half and instead or passing to Jordan outside him he kicked it dead in goal.
This annoyed me a lot. Kickoff that is too deep and flat to contest and lands just over the 22 so it can be kicked straight out over half-way.
And it sucks because there was a period back around 2017-18 that Beaudie used to kick pinpoint restarts and Read would time his run perfectly to knock it back to our side.
that just sums up so much of this team...keep doing something even though a key aspect of if isn;t in on the pitch
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@Machpants yea the hard part about this one is we let it slip. We had the momentum, and the opportunities, but didn't take them. It's more deflating than 2019 where I thought we were dominated start to finish.
Even with everything seemingly going against us we still had multiple chances to win.
I hope in this cycle we can resolve this issue and win the last quarter of games again.
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@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
We will miss Joe Schmidt. I have zero confidence in McDonald, but one thing I am sure of with Razor in charge is that we won't be such a stupid team and that our discipline will be far better.
Mo'unga (who didn't take the drop goal according to the article writer linked here) was "too stupid" despite playing for years under Razor. Sam Whitelock gave away a crucial (if unbelievably soft) penalty against England in 2019...
I find it unlikely that these players get dumber or less disciplined because they're in an All Black squad. I'd say it's a by-product of playing SR more than anything because that little competition tends not to reward such behaviours.
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What about red cards in SR because of the 20 minute rule less damage than in a test match so is discipline not as good as NH teams ? again treading back to SR.
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@Chris yeah good point. That additional disparity with the international game surely doesn't help either.
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@Chris said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
What about red cards in SR because of the 20 minute rule less damage than in a test match so is discipline not as good as NH teams ? again treading back to SR.
7 cards for us in the tournament, far and away the most. 2/3 red cards (arguably should have been two out of plenty, but hey).
Our discipline isn't up to it
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@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
We will miss Joe Schmidt. I have zero confidence in McDonald, but one thing I am sure of with Razor in charge is that we won't be such a stupid team and that our discipline will be far better.
Mo'unga (who didn't take the drop goal according to the article writer linked here) was "too stupid" despite playing for years under Razor. Sam Whitelock gave away a crucial (if unbelievably soft) penalty against England in 2019...
The drop goal thing I disagree with. We were never close enough to go for a drop goal. Whenever we would threaten to enter their 22, the ball would get turned over and we would miss our chance. Had Ardie not shat the bed and shown some composure by holding on to the ball in the 79th minute instead of throwing the miracle offload, then we could have had a chance to attempt one.
As for Whitelock's penalty, that was so out of character for him and that's the only time I can recall Whitelock screwing up.
I am just basing my opinion on what I see in SR, the Crusaders are a smart team and that doesn't just happen by accident. The Hurricanes, Blues and the Highlanders are incredibly stupid teams with bad decision makers and that doesn't happen by accident either.
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@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
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@antipodean said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris yeah good point. That additional disparity with the international game surely doesn't help either.
Yeah that is a major problem making SR an attractive competition with more time in play ball in hand competition to attract fans and sponsors,
But also try to keep it a decent competition as a stepping stone to test Rugby.
It seems the international rules are so far away from what we want see in our rugby no idea how we bring them closer. -
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
Are you nocturnal or something? Isn't it like 2am over there!
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@Chris Yes, but don’t they play the 20-minute red card in the Rugby Championship as well?
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris Yes, but don’t they play the 20-minute red card in the Rugby Championship as well?
Yes they do but it doesn't relate to WCs or NH tours.
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@akan004 Interesting that Razor chose McDonald where there seems little evidence for the selection. Is this because they’re old Crusader mates or is there a real respect there?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
Are you nocturnal or something? Isn't it like 2am over there!
I have a strange relationship with Monday nights
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
I've mentioned it several times, SA know what they are playing. They could play like the ended the game because they were in front. If they were behind I believe they'd have been stuffed. But they never were
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@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
I've mentioned it several times, SA know what they are playing. They could play like the ended the game because they were in front. If they were behind I believe they'd have been stuffed. But they never were
this is the key point. For all this chat, in the end it was a point. They didn't score after the 34th minute. And we missed two kicks at goal that would have won it. There was nothing in this game. there is no great awakening of the strength of one over the other. The game was a bees dick either way.
But, in that frantic last 10 minutes they were in front, and we were the ones who needed to do something. And that's a great space to be in for a team that defends really well. Especially in a world cup final where you know the ref is swallowing the whistle (that's not a ref moan, they all do that in that situation).
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
I’m not here to take anything away from the Boks, but in that match they needed a bit of fortune to get that win. We have had our share of luck too.
In most close games particularly one pointers there are small things that get amplified because the margin between winning and losing is so very fine. We make one of two kicks and all those so called tactics of the Boks come back to haunt them as “not winning rugby.”
I just think it was two contrasting styles that clashed. The Boks gave away a lot of penalties, I doubt that was that part of the strategy? Boks lost 4 out of 10 lineouts, doubt that was in the grand plan especially as the ABs had been well known for attacking defensive lineouts.
I thought our tactics were pretty clear and we countered what the Boks put in front of us for large parts of the game. Yes we made mistakes and got cards but so did the Boks.
In that last 10 minutes there were periods we were in their half attacking. In the last couple of minutes they definitely had it down the right end.
Now the fortune they got against France…
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@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Catogrande said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think you’ve nailed it pretty much. You always expect NZ to play the most intelligent rugby, but the Saffers played smarter on the day imo. Odd, because you clearly have some intelligent players. What’s the issue? Leadership? Coaching?
I think the point everyone is missing is that South Africa were the clearest about what they were trying to do and played knock out rugby - ie they did what they needed to do to win. Take the last 10 minutes. They played as deep in NZ half as possible and hit every tackle, ruck and breakdown like their life depended on it, because thats what they needed to do.
New Zealand couldn’t do it because they haven’t spent 4 years doing it, they, like most teams, haven’t spent 4 years practicing winning the tiny moments. Ireland did, but their game is more technical, more things have to work and they didn’t get to practice the intensity of South Africa then NZ two weeks in a row very often - they tried but they were fucked at the end of the NZ game.
However many decisions went each way - and don’t kid yourself that Barnes and team only went one way, South Africa consistently reacted better. I hate that it’s true.
I've mentioned it several times, SA know what they are playing. They could play like the ended the game because they were in front. If they were behind I believe they'd have been stuffed. But they never were
Foster and Cane, and anyone else that was making decisions on the night, should have it etched onto them, "Kick your kicks, get ahead and make the saffas chase you"
