RWC SF: England v Springboks
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
No due process, repeat accusation, can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if the accusation had been the other way around. The abuse Tom Curry has received online is shameful
I have tried to stay away from this topic.
But Tom Curry receiving online abuse is shameful and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.Equally, the RFU doubling down on the claim of racist behaviour from Bongi when a WR investigation over 5 days and many independent pundit evaluations point to Curry most likely misinterpreting Afrikaans is absolutely shameful too. In my view that RFU statement is disgraceful for that part.
For context, South Africans are extremely sensitive to racist behaviour which carries all sorts of penalties.
Equally, a false claim of racist behaviour against someone can also land you with jail time in SA.Yes we’ve all seen all the fan videos claiming to exonerate Bongi, except none of them refer to the moment it supposedly happened. People are choosing to believe what they believe based on who they support and then hurling abuse at the person making the complaint.
We’ve no idea what happened but the investigation so called, didn’t appear to interview either of the only two people who know the truth.
I’ve also stayed out of it, but the immediate decision that it didn’t happen by most people, and the abuse that followed has just pissed me off. Seems to me that since the same player has been accused before, a proper investigation should have taken place.
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@OomPB said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
Can they charge Curry?
Not likely. But there could be in a civil case in the UK against the RFU.
Equally Curry or/and the RFU might look into implications under French law if they judge they haven’t been adequately protected by World Rugby.
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@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
No due process, repeat accusation, can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if the accusation had been the other way around. The abuse Tom Curry has received online is shameful
I have tried to stay away from this topic.
But Tom Curry receiving online abuse is shameful and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.Equally, the RFU doubling down on the claim of racist behaviour from Bongi when a WR investigation over 5 days and many independent pundit evaluations point to Curry most likely misinterpreting Afrikaans is absolutely shameful too. In my view that RFU statement is disgraceful for that part.
For context, South Africans are extremely sensitive to racist behaviour which carries all sorts of penalties.
Equally, a false claim of racist behaviour against someone can also land you with jail time in SA.Yes we’ve all seen all the fan videos claiming to exonerate Bongi, except none of them refer to the moment it supposedly happened. People are choosing to believe what they believe based on who they support and then hurling abuse at the person making the complaint.
We’ve no idea what happened but the investigation so called, didn’t appear to interview either of the only two people who know the truth.
I’ve also stayed out of it, but the immediate decision that it didn’t happen by most people, and the abuse that followed has just pissed me off. Seems to me that since the same player has been accused before, a proper investigation should have taken place.
So, World Rugby took circa 5 days to review 2 games and came up with nothing.
Yet the RFU can outright call Bongi a racist based on what is possibly / probably a misinterpreted Afrikaans phrase / phrases shown to be commonly used by the Boks... and that's ok?That's not some arbitrary individual, that's a national governing body of a sport behaving like that.
With a published, public statement.
If you want to talk about being pissed off - that's the bit that's got me wound up.The RFU can "Choose my side" (google translate to Afrikaans).
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@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
No due process, repeat accusation, can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if the accusation had been the other way around. The abuse Tom Curry has received online is shameful
I have tried to stay away from this topic.
But Tom Curry receiving online abuse is shameful and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.Equally, the RFU doubling down on the claim of racist behaviour from Bongi when a WR investigation over 5 days and many independent pundit evaluations point to Curry most likely misinterpreting Afrikaans is absolutely shameful too. In my view that RFU statement is disgraceful for that part.
For context, South Africans are extremely sensitive to racist behaviour which carries all sorts of penalties.
Equally, a false claim of racist behaviour against someone can also land you with jail time in SA.Yes we’ve all seen all the fan videos claiming to exonerate Bongi, except none of them refer to the moment it supposedly happened. People are choosing to believe what they believe based on who they support and then hurling abuse at the person making the complaint.
We’ve no idea what happened but the investigation so called, didn’t appear to interview either of the only two people who know the truth.
I’ve also stayed out of it, but the immediate decision that it didn’t happen by most people, and the abuse that followed has just pissed me off. Seems to me that since the same player has been accused before, a proper investigation should have taken place.
All I know is that "white side" is rather close to "the dog ate my homework" on the bs meter.
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
No due process, repeat accusation, can only imagine the gnashing of teeth if the accusation had been the other way around. The abuse Tom Curry has received online is shameful
I have tried to stay away from this topic.
But Tom Curry receiving online abuse is shameful and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.Equally, the RFU doubling down on the claim of racist behaviour from Bongi when a WR investigation over 5 days and many independent pundit evaluations point to Curry most likely misinterpreting Afrikaans is absolutely shameful too. In my view that RFU statement is disgraceful for that part.
For context, South Africans are extremely sensitive to racist behaviour which carries all sorts of penalties.
Equally, a false claim of racist behaviour against someone can also land you with jail time in SA.Yes we’ve all seen all the fan videos claiming to exonerate Bongi, except none of them refer to the moment it supposedly happened. People are choosing to believe what they believe based on who they support and then hurling abuse at the person making the complaint.
We’ve no idea what happened but the investigation so called, didn’t appear to interview either of the only two people who know the truth.
I’ve also stayed out of it, but the immediate decision that it didn’t happen by most people, and the abuse that followed has just pissed me off. Seems to me that since the same player has been accused before, a proper investigation should have taken place.
So, World Rugby took circa 5 days to review 2 games and came up with nothing.
Yet the RFU can outright call Bongi a racist based on what is possibly / probably a misinterpreted Afrikaans phrase / phrases shown to be commonly used by the Boks... and that's ok?That's not some arbitrary individual, that's a national governing body of a sport behaving like that.
With a published, public statement.
If you want to talk about being pissed off - that's the bit that's got me wound up.The RFU can "Choose my side" (google translate to Afrikaans).
WR were always going to sweep it under the carpet. The big question is why the RFU are doubling down. Could be that they're still salty about the SF, but they really have zero to gain from doing this. Before I was firmly in the camp that it there was nothing in it and that Curry should have focussed on the biggest game of his life and not bad words hurting his feelings. Now I not so sure. Again, why double down?
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It is worth adding that the RFU’s barrister, Richard Smith KC, is about as experienced and respected as you can get in sports law.
Richard Smith KC
Richard Smith KC is a Crime barrister and Sports Law barrister. He has over 35 years' experience at the Bar.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
The big question is why the RFU are doubling down. Could be that they're still salty about the SF, but they really have zero to gain from doing this. Before I was firmly in the camp that it there was nothing in it and that Curry should have focussed on the biggest game of his life and not bad words hurting his feelings. Now I not so sure. Again, why double down?
We're talking about the RFU here.
Not really the paragon of a thoughtful well run organization with a bunch of geniuses at the top of late are they? -
@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
The big question is why the RFU are doubling down. Could be that they're still salty about the SF, but they really have zero to gain from doing this. Before I was firmly in the camp that it there was nothing in it and that Curry should have focussed on the biggest game of his life and not bad words hurting his feelings. Now I not so sure. Again, why double down?
We're talking about the RFU here.
Not really the paragon of a thoughtful well run organization with a bunch of geniuses at the top of late are they?Swap RFU with WR.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
The big question is why the RFU are doubling down.
This is a really interesting question.
There's no reverse of result
So there seems to be some thought of protecting their guy. They really think they're right.
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
The big question is why the RFU are doubling down. Could be that they're still salty about the SF, but they really have zero to gain from doing this. Before I was firmly in the camp that it there was nothing in it and that Curry should have focussed on the biggest game of his life and not bad words hurting his feelings. Now I not so sure. Again, why double down?
We're talking about the RFU here.
Not really the paragon of a thoughtful well run organization with a bunch of geniuses at the top of late are they?Whilst I agree with you view on the RFU, what makes me wonder is that they have effectively broken ranks with the status quo and that is not really in their DNA.
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It more and more looks as though there is something that it is felt has not been addressed. Too many people putting their necks on the line for it to be deemed otherwise.
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@Catogrande Normally extremely cautious people are going all in here. I’m beginning to wonder if they is a lot more to the story than has been made public.
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@Smuts said in RWC SF: England v Springboks:
There’s less.
borthwinger is only too keen to keep hiding behind this malicious smokescreen instead of talking about how he was relaxing and congratulating himself at 60 minutes just as the game was turning.
Not really, Borthwick’s team exceeded expectations at home. Even if his side lose tomorrow night, he can probably negotiate a new contract with the England set-up.
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You’ve elided my point.
If EJ was still the England coach and they’d choked like that, would the boys at the Telegraph/Mail etc be riding this nonsense or would they be calling the coach out for what was a humiliating failure to adapt to the boks’ in game tactical changes - changes that Borthwick ought to have prepared for.
Especially as getting humped at the scrum by the boks is a pro that should’ve been fixed in the four years since 2019.
The press is happy - accusing South Africans of racism sells far more papers than dry technical analysis of their shortcomings as a sporting nation.
On top of all this, I’d bet dollars to donuts there’s some PR manager pushing this for fear of what ought to be righteous anger at recklessly raising such an insidious allegation.
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I'm guessing the accusation of racism bites deeper for you Saffer brothers and I can understand your reaction but you're conflating two issues which really can't be conflated. Now I'm not saying here that Bongi is guilty (I can't be arsed typing Mbonambi all the time) and it really wouldn't surprise me if the confusion over some Afrikaans terminology is how things happened. My thoughts though are, and leaving aside any sensationalism from the UK press, is that normally staid, toe the line stakeholders like the RFU and Borthwick are not just pissed off but have come out strongly and said as much. These people do not stick their heads over the parapet on a whim. Are they pissed off with Bongi or are they pissed off that WR have not investigated the issue fully - I'd say the latter, but that is just my view of things.
As an aside if it turns out that Bongi IS guilty of the racial slur, it should be remembered that it is the actions of an individual and not a team, let alone a nation.
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It's quite intriguing this - in a load of bullshit sort of way.
First of all, BOK should have dealt with it on the field. Pulled SA in, said the facts they likely would have said they said xxxxx in Afrikaans, no offence intended, BOK, and likely Curry accept it and moved on. Done.
However, given this didn't happen and it instead followed the formal procedure then I think due process needs to be followed & England are right to take the moral high ground. Don't agree? Thats fine, but ask yourself if you'd feel the same in the reverse situation where Curry says it.
