RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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@Chris said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Are you telling me NZ will not produce any new talent in the next 4 years.
I'm asking where is this new talent we need to beat other countries coming from when they seem to develop better talent.
We always do.It just depends on how many.
At the moment in many positions the "how many" equates to bugger-all
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@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@mencey Foster is learning, but the players aren’t 😬
Yep. But the Busk stops. SW and BR were in the 2015 team that won the WC. They are probably the greatest locking pair in history. There are genuine great players in this team like Ardie. It all starts with the game plan and picking of that team. Some of these players should not be there anymore or should not have been there in that first place. Christie comes to mind among others. Used to rate ALB. But he has lost it. Anyway. I think Razor knows how to build a team. He is there to prove me wrong but I would not bet against him.
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@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Stargazer said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@pjay said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
Who's claiming to have achieved "some new paradigm in rugby"?
I haven't seen any arrogance whatsoever. Just incompetence.
I think the arrogance comment is around the view a lot of AB supports have that NZ alway has he best players, best set up and best rugby thinkers
Not here we don't. Incompetence from the board down, as shown by the report on governance coupled with our recent records in mens XV
Well said NewsHub
I completely gave up on these coaches when Roigard wasn't selected for this game. Team is being coached by fools. BB is bad enough but this decision took dumb selections to another.
21-Finlay Christie 2
Any chance the All Blacks had of turning around the 19-13 scoreline went out the window when Christie entered the fray. You have to wonder what more Cam Roigard or even Brad Weber have to do to be considered as Smith's back-up..
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The forwards (and the backs) were only totally shit against France for 40 minutes
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Hopefully the new u/20 rugby championship helps to improve our under age talent it is a start.
Better than what we have had, our talent comes from underneath you know that.I find it hard to believe you think in the next 4 years we will not produce any new talent,
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ABs need their injured players back and some luck on the injury front for the rest of the campaign.
They have more than a punchers chance still. All it takes is a red card in a QF or SF to swing momentum. Just need to make sure it isn’t an AB.
Discipline needs to massively improve.
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Don't really have to much time to comment on the game as heading to the outback this afternoon, well Penrith, but same same, but this is going to be a tiring RWC with the "neutral" Oz commentary team for AB games. Think TJ and the Blues and that's the ballpark.
Couple of quick things on the game, my heart actually sank when Christie came on with nearly 20m to go, there's players I dislike for good reason (the Tongan on and off the field) but I don't even dislike Christie despite the fact he's a ginga, I just don't think he's up to it this year.
I fast forwarded the build up so didn't know Cane was out and only clicked when Dalton gave away a holding on penalty and I thought uh oh the anti-Cane brigade will be all over that.
Telea is turning into a damn good test player, he always makes metres no matter where he gets the ball.
All of our current props are good for a handling error a game and limited metres with the ball. Is Owen Franks our front row running coach?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
The forwards (and the backs) were only totally shit against France for 40 minutes
ok I'll give you that. But they were also totally shit against SA. That is 2 games in a row.
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@mencey said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@mencey Foster is learning, but the players aren’t 😬
Yep. But the Busk stops. SW and BR were in the 2015 team that won the WC. They are probably the greatest locking pair in history. There are genuine great players in this team like Ardie. It all starts with the game plan and picking of that team. Some of these players should not be there anymore or should not have been there in that first place. Christie comes to mind among others. Used to rate ALB. But he has lost it. Anyway. I think Razor knows how to build a team. He is there to prove me wrong but I would not bet against him.
I don't think SW and BR are quite the same players. But they are still good ones. ALB's ceiling wasn't so high but he def isn't quite the player he was and has more competition (maybe).
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I wonder if they should drop De Groot and Jordan for a game (and I say that as a fan of these two).
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@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Stag said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
What a list Fozzy has
First home loss to Ireland
First series loss to Ireland
First loss to Argentina
First home loss to Argentina
Largest ever defeat
First ever pool loss at a World CupJust to name a few…
From the dedicated thread
First to lose to Ireland in NZ.
First to lose a series to Ireland.
First 3 test series loss in professional era.
Worst halftime deficit ever.
First to lose to Argentina, and at home
Highest score against us
Biggest losing margin x2
Lowest world ranking
Worst win rate in Pro era
First ever consecutive 14 point+ losses
First loss in RWC pool play
Worst ever RWC loss
Biggest margin of defeats and highest scores conceded against Argentina, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, and France
Only ever time lost 3 consecutive home testsI hear he’s the also the first AB coach to eat Vita Brit’s and not Weetbix.
The sun will come up tomorrow….
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@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@NTA the dual pívot is Foster’s baby. He’ll go down with the ship before he abandons that idea I think.
The idea isn't necessarily bad. I think Barrett's time as a miracle worker has run out at the very top end, because the forwards aren't as dominant
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@Duluth said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.
39/84 predicted a loss. I doubt we've ever had a more pessimistic poll
Yeah, but we weren’t even close, which I thought was predictable. The coach, players, and it seems fans, keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Lots of hearts over heads as has been mentioned for those that thought we might win.
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@NTA said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@NTA the dual pívot is Foster’s baby. He’ll go down with the ship before he abandons that idea I think.
The idea isn't necessarily bad. I think Barrett's time as a miracle worker has run out at the very top end, because the forwards aren't as dominant
He's also not near the same athlete he was 5-10 years ago. He offers nearly zero threat ball in hand these days. At least before his speed could cover up for his average field kicking.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Chester-Draws said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Quick report from your local correspondent here in fucking hot Paris:
Backroom full of donkeys. Vaai, predictability, the worst of them. Tight five carried them. In as much as you can call that display "carried".
De Groot will want to forget that game in a hurry. ALB was MIA after that beautiful pop pass to Rieko.
Will Jordan is obviously a very dimwitted slow learner. Jump to contest you fuckwomble.Beaudy was bloody good until the final quarter. As was Mounga.
The blame for you Foster haters needs to be apportioned to the rest of the coaching staff who have had plenty of time to address the obvious issues. This was a collective display of incompetence.
The buck stops at the head coach. And with Ryan and Schmidt we have had some games which forwards really muscled up and attack was good versus decent opposition. Prior to them, none. So yes Ryan and Schmidt are part of the selectors and coaching team, but there has been improvement with them on board. Foster had the final say, and the midfield bomb/millions of sorry kicks/play in your own 22 has been the default under the entire foster tenure. And that leads to our losses
Ahh yes, the predictable lament that 'when we're good it's the assistants, when we're bad it's the head coach'. Those with a few more functioning synapses might start to look at the quality of player available and reflect on that body of evidence.
IMO you have to be a dimwit to believe that the problem is just the head coach.
Nope, just recognising that in the end the head coach makes the decisions, and if he ignores his assistants, then they cannot be held accountable.
We have plenty of evidence that Schmidt is a good coach, and that Ryan is a great forwards coach. If they have turned to rubbish within one year, then it is one man that has done that.
When things were going dreadfully, Foster had no choice but to allow them to make changes. Once things were going well, we saw him revert to his favourite players and plays.
By the end of next year the whining about not having decent players will be gone. It will take the change of one man in the set-up. (I'm not even particularly pro-Robertson, I think that would happen if he were to resign and say Jamie Joseph got the job.)
And you have this deep inside knowledge of the discussions between Foster, Schmidt and Ryan how?
If you think all the problems can be solved by replacing one man and then in a few months NZ Rugby will be back to the glory days of 50 point shellackings of the Boks, then I could put you in touch with some people who are selling a bridge?
You only have to look at the U20 performance since 2016, the lack of player development, the innovation in coaching and rugby structure in the NH and NZR's seeming inability to notice the rugby world has moved on to see the problems are way deeper than that
You are sure of your position, based on exactly the same evidence as I am. Unless you do have inside knowledge. You wouldn't go round slighting people when you are doing the exact same thing, would you?
I never said we would be back to the glory days in one year, only that the clown days will be over, and that people will stop thinking we have no depth. The change will be that we play to the strengths of the players, not trying to shoe-horn the players into a very ordinary game plan.
At the end of 2024 is when you should bag me for being wrong. I'll be here.
(Just for the record, I predicted almost exactly what has happened under the Foster regime four years ago. All I'm doing now is predicting what will happen when he leaves, and we have history to suggest what might happen in that regard.)
