All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
I think we should have more confidence in SR form.
If we did, Ennor would have started instead of Jordie.
Stop talking bollocks and show me Enmor's form in the 12 jumper.
And you get surprised when you're called a a Foster apologist
Comprehensiom mate, comprehension.
Protection much? I'm still waiting to hear about the amazing form of Ennor in the 12 jumper.
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@BerniesCorner said in Argentina v All Blacks:
I've got no problem that RM is starting but in my mind would have been logical to have DMac in the 23 if things go pear shaped. He's a brilliant sub too cos of his versatility
Yeah the debate seems to be around rm v dm
But maybe the fact dm is a 10/15 it should be
Bb v dm if all 3 don’t fit in the 23 .
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In the big games DMac has to be in the 23. I'm calling his non selection an error.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Dan54 I dont think any teams are 'leery' of any players.
But seems a waste to have one of our most destructive ball runners sitting on the pine watching, potentially only entering when the game is gone, or if tight and we are chasing it, means the game plan may be altered.
I'd love for Fozzie to stick it to everyone and pull 2023 out of the bag...
So and SA also like to run the hooker most consider to be one of very best in world off bench, and have done so very effectively for a few years anyway. But as I say, I think Taylor is a better hooker, especially at scrum.
I know we all have opinions and love seeing Samisoni with ball in hand, but I kind of happy with Jason Ryan's take on it. But it doesn't really matter does it, we have who we think who are best, and Jase Ryan get's more say. and dare I say should do, than any of us, I actually don't think Samisoni has been as good even at super level this year, not bad, just not as dominant. I have impression also at times that Taylor works well with his props on putting squeeze on opposition hooker at scrum, seems to spererate the from loosie at times, also think Coles is good at it. -
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
I think we should have more confidence in SR form.
If we did, Ennor would have started instead of Jordie.
Stop talking bollocks and show me Enmor's form in the 12 jumper.
And you get surprised when you're called a a Foster apologist
Comprehensiom mate, comprehension.
Protection much? I'm still waiting to hear about the amazing form of Ennor in the 12 jumper.
Let me explain it slowly.
The argument was that AB game 23's should be more biased on SR form. This is a sensible and valid argument, but like all arguments has it pros and cons (i.e. things which support the argument and those which don't).
There were many comments (not just on here) that Jordie's form in SR was poor and concerns about how he would perform at Test level. When we examine the logic of the argument, we find the fact that Jordie played extremely well in Mendoza points against the argument.
In order to explain this pointer against the argument, an alternative scenario - which accepts the argument to test it - is often put forward. This is called "testing, or hypothesis testing".
There were two options available at 12 in Mendoza (JB & Ennor) so we can test the argument by comparing the performance of the 12 who people had said was in poor form in SR against actual performance and use this to help reach a conclusion. In this particular case the 12 who played and was regarded by many as being out of form in SR (Jordie) was MoM.
It should be noted that this does not mean the argument is invalid, it only demonstrates that in certain cases it is correct and others not. Also, this variation (i.e when an argument does not hold true) can occur no matter who makes the selection or decision to select on SR form- a good example being Ma'a Nonu - and people recognise this and discuss on this basis.
Obviously, had there been different options in Mendoza, it would well be different. However this is a separate argument as it relates to the selection of the entire AB squad and not just the team for Mendoza.
I trust that clarifies things for you. I'm off to read some von Schelling.
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I will be interested to see where RMo positions himself , I thought last week DMac played fairly flat to the line, and do think this has a couple of good things for it, gives holds rush defence a bit and also give loosies good chance to get ball on front foot ( I actually think this showed with Frizzell's game). RMo tends to like depth, and even to be a secondary receiver for Crusaders, so I hope they tweek this a bit.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Yes, the longer they persist with hoping it changes, the older and less confident the players become and it means it gets further away from happening.
Fozzie ain’t going to change now though with 9tests left on his watch.
With Schmidt and Ryan running the side now, we are better placed to do well and actually have modern tactics applied the this AB side. Watching Ireland bamboozle us with their attacking patterns was embarrassing
We will have to wait till next year where we will have real change and the moaning will probably be around a crusader bias.
For sure Grubs, the moaning will just change to something else, such is the way of posting on the internet.
We know best surely!!
And noone remembers what they or anyone posted 3 weeks before so they can just post exact opposite to last year!
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@Dan54 well I'm glad you still trust our coaches implicitly, but my trust in what they do was eroded, sure Ryan has made some changes, but for me the Foster influence seems to still be there...I am actually looking forward to the test tomorrow, probably more so than I have any test for the past few years at least.
Maybe its the changes made already combined with anticipation of larger changes next year, who knows, but tomorrow will be good, club footy semi final then hopefully, a good AB test match.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Dan54 I dont think any teams are 'leery' of any players.
But seems a waste to have one of our most destructive ball runners sitting on the pine watching, potentially only entering when the game is gone, or if tight and we are chasing it, means the game plan may be altered.
I'd love for Fozzie to stick it to everyone and pull 2023 out of the bag...
So and SA also like to run the hooker most consider to be one of very best in world off bench, and have done so very effectively for a few years anyway. But as I say, I think Taylor is a better hooker, especially at scrum.
I know we all have opinions and love seeing Samisoni with ball in hand, but I kind of happy with Jason Ryan's take on it. But it doesn't really matter does it, we have who we think who are best, and Jase Ryan get's more say. and dare I say should do, than any of us, I actually don't think Samisoni has been as good even at super level this year, not bad, just not as dominant. I have impression also at times that Taylor works well with his props on putting squeeze on opposition hooker at scrum, seems to spererate the from loosie at times, also think Coles is good at it.To a degree Boks pick hooker and LH as unit. Ox and Bongo are quite short so work well together. Marx is quite tall hooker and suits Kitshoff, and, in particular, Du Toit better.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Dan54 well I'm glad you still trust our coaches implicitly, but my trust in what they do was eroded, sure Ryan has made some changes, but for me the Foster influence seems to still be there...I am actually looking forward to the test tomorrow, probably more so than I have any test for the past few years at least.
Maybe its the changes made already combined with anticipation of larger changes next year, who knows, but tomorrow will be good, club footy semi final then hopefully, a good AB test match.
Well it's not a case of trusting coaches implicity or otherwise, that's not up to me. It's just I temper any of my thoughts with I don't really know the what's and wherefores of decisions, (ie what's happening in training etc etc). I also try to be a little realistic on what cattle we produce on rugby fields these days, as shown by our U20s really struggling on world stage last few years etc.
I don't mind if others see game differently to me, but like some calling people apologists etc, I disagree, it's not about that,. I will admit without any fear of being wrong that the crew coaching ABs or any super team know more about coachiing rugby than I do , so while at times I think I would go a little different, I look back on my career as a coach, manager, administrator and know I was never offered these jobs (and I would of probably loved them) because perhaps I don't really have the knowledge etc to do it better. Other on here may have and all power to them.
I actually think I really starting enjoying rugby most when I realised that we as a country don't have the absolute right to win every test, and that when pro rugby came in we were going to eventually struggle to saty on top of pile, and is showing now , we losing too much rugby nous overseas I think.
But I also try and look at postive side of things anyway, and not just negatives and what is wrong. And bloody happy doing it! -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Wtf is going on ABs social media this year.
Last year/previous years they used to have interviews with Foz/players when the team was named, they used to post press conferences and they used to have 'In The Sheds' videos after the game and now all of that has been canned.
Talk about bare mininum.
IIRC, people were arguing last year there was too much of this sort of stuff, it was distracting, showed a lack of focus and a symptom of a poor culture.
Maybe they've done some thinking and made some changes.
nope, not how i remember it at all, i remember being happy about the odd glance into the minds making decisions
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Just something I meant to mention on how hard we look at games etc on tv. On Aotearoa Rugby the other night, Bryn Hall and Jame Parson were talking about the call of "play 2" that was used when a cutout pass was made leading into Jordies's try, I never heard it etc, but shows what we can miss. Was interesting after they were talking the week before on how much they rely on comms etc the wek before, how there is normally a call whenever people are changing angles , coming up in support etc. I know you hear that some players like BB are pretty good at letting players in front know where gaps etc are in back field.
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@Dan54 re the cattle, yeah nah. The average of the South African squad is 30, and that is brought down by some of the younger guys who aren't in the top side. So on average those guys were playing U20s in 2012/2013. We were reasonable at U20 level back then.
We have the cattle, we've just used them really poorly in the last couple of years. Poor selection, management, coaching and tactics. In a couple of years time our lack of youth talent may bite, but not yet. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Dan54 re the cattle, yeah nah. The average of the South African squad is 30, and that is brought down by some of the younger guys who aren't in the top side. So on average those guys were playing U20s in 2012/2013. We were reasonable at U20 level back then.
We have the cattle, we've just used them really poorly in the last couple of years. Poor selection, management, coaching and tactics. In a couple of years time our lack of youth talent may bite, but not yet.Did we?
Here are the 2012 and 2013 squads.
Savea is the only World XV player in there, plus Scott of the Barretts, Pat T, and Ofa. The rest of the higher quality players are already overseas (Taufua, Proctor, West, Hall, Hemopo), representing someone else (Heenan, I think?), or weren't that good anyway (Hickey, Marty McKenzie).
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So how do we se this game playing out, now that we have the teams? What will the AB's do differently to last week? Some questions:
- will we kick from hand more for territory (using RM's raking boot )
- will RM play deeper than D-Mac did to counter the expected rush D? I know everyone loved DMac playing so flat, but that won't be so easy this week
- will we attack their lineout or defend the expected resulting mauls?
- are the subs pre-planned (Vaa'i on for Friz with SB to blindside? BB to 10
, Sami on for a solid 25 at least?), and will we see them early in the 2nd half? - looking forward to seeing how the scrum holds up this week
- will we show some patience and be prepared to attack through multiple phases, or will we resort to box kicking the minute we don't breach the ad-line?
- I for one hope we are patient, and put the chip kick and box kick away in the cupboard. Would love to more sniping from ASmith too, though maybe that needs to be kept in the dry'ish powder draw for a bit
- will we kick from hand more for territory (using RM's raking boot
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@voodoo other than keeping our powder dry, we will go some ways to winning this if we play similar to Joberg last year.
Richie varied his depth but importantly gave his outsides space to work with. The pick n go game was aggressive (not just going through the motions). Ardie was active in attack. We kept the ball alive to counter their very organised defence.
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@ACT-Crusader Might be a big difference between a hard JoBurg track last year and a heavy Mt Smart ground this year.
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@Dan54 I don't think we have the right to win everything, I just think the way this coaching team has managed things for the past 4 years and them part of prior has certainly not done things as well as they should have (results show they haven't got alot right) sure the last 12 months things look to be moving a bit more in the right way, but imo seems alot of damage to players psyche and by the same token opposition have gained that little hit of belief too.
I just hope tomorrow is a cracker.
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@Steve said in Argentina v All Blacks:
As predicted.....DMAC jettisoned. Fozzie gonna Foz.
After being an earlier critic of DM at 10 and then grudgingly but quickly coming around to him at 10 this year I'd say I'm not upset but ...
