NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship)
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@Stargazer Paarl is in the western Cape who gets winter rains. This year we had a lot of rain , specially the last month. We dont complain after we nearly got day zero water three years ago. The Inland provinces have summer rains. The NH teams like England, France, Italy, Wales played at Paarl Gimnasium in the yearly Internal u18 tournament. So their current u20s are use to the conditions. I stayed a block from Paarl Gimnasium for 15 years and we walk line when the kids play with gum boots. The had to move our u16 provincial tournament this year from Markotter Stadium (Paul Roos home venue) due to the conditions.
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@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@kev said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
No, there are three venues:
Danie Craven Stadium (Stellenbosch)
Paarl Gymnasium (Paarl)
Athlone Stadium (Athlone, Cape Town)Ok all the games I have seen have been at Paarl - it’s been wet and the field has just got worse.
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Firstly the quality of the pitch was a disgrace and to play multiple games on it,seriously World Rugby
If you count the first round that would have been the 8th game on the same pitch in 5 x daysAll these sort of conditions did was play into the hands of the bigger packs
This pitch is a bad injury or 2 waiting to happen ,so much for player welfareOn the NZ performance ,
it should be said tactically it was’nt the smartest performance from the Baby Blacks ,they needed to kick long and force the French to play out of their own half ,they tried 3 or 4 high kicks which did’nt work which just gifted the big french pack more ball which allowed them to play to their strengthsPersonally i would have played Harry Godfrey at first five who has a longer kicking game and is a bit more physical when taking on the line
I was impressed with the scrum which was a real improvement on previous games
Credit to the French played to their strengths -
@sparky they are all going to basketball ,hard to develop size when you have’nt got it.
Even the Blues U20s that took the super title used 2 loose looseforwards because their 2 starting locks were injuredAlso this current forward pack is a similar size to the Baby Blacks team that won the title in 2017
And that side has produced the most ever super rugby players and several All Blacks -
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
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@cgrant said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
Fabian Holland is probably the next big beefy lock. Still 20 and his Highlanders stats list him at 2.04 and 124 kg. He's the same height as Pari Pari Parkinson but has 5 kg on his listed weight.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
Because FRU put it hard rules about foreign-born numbers, and they also have 3 pro leagues, with more teams than the entire SH
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Think France have been building into this for some time. With all the intellectual property we have lost to the French clubs, plus shedloads of players both fringe ABs and ex-ABs, this
has been coming for a while and isn't surprising. Right on the eve of the senior WC too. We can bleat on as much as we like, but we just need to evolve and be better than them. Take the game to another level. -
Not just France and not just U20.
Other countries like Ireland and Argentina and to a lesser extent, Scotland & Italy, have clearly put some serious resources and thinking into developing their player base.
We've been way too complacent in NZ for nearly a decade believing we'd always have a superior pool of players while other countries have invested prudently and are seeing the benefits. At least there's some signs of NZR waking up with the AB XV approach, but I sense it will take a few years to see results.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Not just France and not just U20.
Other countries like Ireland and Argentina and to a lesser extent, Scotland & Italy, have clearly put some serious resources and thinking into developing their player base.
We've been way too complacent in NZ for nearly a decade believing we'd always have a superior pool of players while other countries have invested prudently and are seeing the benefits. At least there's some signs of NZR waking up with the AB XV approach, but I sense it will take a few years to see results.
Georgia says hi
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@Machpants said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
Because FRU put it hard rules about foreign-born numbers, and they also have 3 pro leagues, with more teams than the entire SH
They just bring them in earlier. I've heard stories about regular plane loads of young PI players heading to France. They aren't just from the French territories but Fiji and Samoa.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
France have won the 6 nations once in 10 years.
Their u20s Have not won the 6 nations for a few years.I wouldn't get carried away by u20 results especially in a mud bath. It's nice to win but underage teams develop differently in different countries. France have a lot of teams which means their players will get opportunities. Their squad have over 250 top 14 games. About 5 times higher than the next highest.
Tuilagi has gotten a lot of press but he will need to lose plenty of those kgs if he wants to play for France senior team.
A law change limiting the number of subs would swing the balance towards lighter players again but that's another topic.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Not just France and not just U20.
Other countries like Ireland and Argentina and to a lesser extent, Scotland & Italy, have clearly put some serious resources and thinking into developing their player base.
We've been way too complacent in NZ for nearly a decade believing we'd always have a superior pool of players while other countries have invested prudently and are seeing the benefits. At least there's some signs of NZR waking up with the AB XV approach, but I sense it will take a few years to see results.
Complacent like the 7s were, we were too slow to professionalise it, with permanent 7s players. Thankfully that was savable, due to the lesser scale of 7s (money, numbers, etc).
