NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship)
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@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
I guess I didn't understand your point then. I thought you were using Williams as an example of NZ picking size over mobility.
I was saying that when size is available we pick it in response to the comment about whether NZ would persevere with a big guy or not.
If we can get size and mobility then all the better.
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I remember an interview last year with tawara kerr barlow on SENZ and he couldnt emphasis enough on what is going on in France .
He kept banging on about it, kept saying stuff like, you have to actually be here to see what they are building , its like nothing ive seen anyway with their depth in quality coming through their ranks
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@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He's an exception rather than the rule due to his skill and mobility. We don't generally see too many big men in NZ rugby.
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Crazy-Horse said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Nepia said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@akan004 said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
I know we tend to opt for mobility over size in NZ, but I do think we have to start to look at bigger athletes as well. That's where the game is heading, especially in the NH. Would players such as Tuilagi, Skelton, Meafou etc have been persevered with in NZ? Probably not.
Tamaiti Williams has just been selected as an AB. So maybe yes.
He is bloody mobile though, more so than a good number of 'smaller' props.
Not really the point though. Tuilagi looked pretty mobile too.
We just don't have as many guys that size coming through - France seem to have the gigantic PI pipeline tapped at the moment.
We have a far larger PI population to pick from than them so that tells me that less priority is placed on identifying and developing bigger athletes.
Skelton, Antonio and Meafou are born in NZ, so we clearly have large humans. Just need to start selecting them.
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@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
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@Rapido said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@Bovidae said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
Tamaiti Williams is another converted loose forward. There are some huge PI props at 1st XV level but they need to be developed.
All the more reason to get a 'single market' in Super Rugby Pacific, so we can get the Brumbies to sign and train some tighties for us. The top down NZRU structure has created a silo.
Same Brumbies that choked in the big maul occasion against the chiefs? Yeah, Nah
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There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
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@Stargazer Paarl is in the western Cape who gets winter rains. This year we had a lot of rain , specially the last month. We dont complain after we nearly got day zero water three years ago. The Inland provinces have summer rains. The NH teams like England, France, Italy, Wales played at Paarl Gimnasium in the yearly Internal u18 tournament. So their current u20s are use to the conditions. I stayed a block from Paarl Gimnasium for 15 years and we walk line when the kids play with gum boots. The had to move our u16 provincial tournament this year from Markotter Stadium (Paul Roos home venue) due to the conditions.
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@Stargazer said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
@kev said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
What were they thinking playing all these games at one venue? Is it the same field for each match?
No, there are three venues:
Danie Craven Stadium (Stellenbosch)
Paarl Gymnasium (Paarl)
Athlone Stadium (Athlone, Cape Town)Ok all the games I have seen have been at Paarl - it’s been wet and the field has just got worse.
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Firstly the quality of the pitch was a disgrace and to play multiple games on it,seriously World Rugby
If you count the first round that would have been the 8th game on the same pitch in 5 x daysAll these sort of conditions did was play into the hands of the bigger packs
This pitch is a bad injury or 2 waiting to happen ,so much for player welfareOn the NZ performance ,
it should be said tactically it was’nt the smartest performance from the Baby Blacks ,they needed to kick long and force the French to play out of their own half ,they tried 3 or 4 high kicks which did’nt work which just gifted the big french pack more ball which allowed them to play to their strengthsPersonally i would have played Harry Godfrey at first five who has a longer kicking game and is a bit more physical when taking on the line
I was impressed with the scrum which was a real improvement on previous games
Credit to the French played to their strengths -
@sparky they are all going to basketball ,hard to develop size when you have’nt got it.
Even the Blues U20s that took the super title used 2 loose looseforwards because their 2 starting locks were injuredAlso this current forward pack is a similar size to the Baby Blacks team that won the title in 2017
And that side has produced the most ever super rugby players and several All Blacks -
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
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@cgrant said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
There are a few huge props in NZ SR teams (Ma'u, Tosi) but they don't get much playing time, so their development is hampered. There aren't big beefy locks though. Tuipolutu and IWL are the biggest but they can't be compared to the likes of Meafou, Tuilagi or Willemsee. Whitelock and Retallick are exceptional men who are gonna be very hard to replace.
Fabian Holland is probably the next big beefy lock. Still 20 and his Highlanders stats list him at 2.04 and 124 kg. He's the same height as Pari Pari Parkinson but has 5 kg on his listed weight.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in NZ U20 v France U20 (World Rugby U20 Championship):
How ironic is this? Was very recently that we were hearing that the big money imports were killing the domestic game in France. Now they appear to be at the leading edge. Why is that? All the money being pumped in? Whatever the case, it does appear concerning that we may be behind the times. It won't be the first time but it's not a great position to be in.
Because FRU put it hard rules about foreign-born numbers, and they also have 3 pro leagues, with more teams than the entire SH
