All Blacks 2023
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Yup. The stats reinforce exactly what has been said in Highlanders threads throughout the year. Plenty of people noticed the drop off in Shannons contact work
Paul Cully used these stats to explain why Sotutu was (correctly) dropped, but seemed to omit stats for a player he's a been a big promotor of.
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@Duluth and i'll admit i was a frizell fan, his first season for the landers was epic, was it his debut he score three tries against the blues?...but even i gave up thinking he should be an BA ages ago....and the last couple of seasons even his Highlander performances have fallen back in line with the other loosies we have if not less than (see renton, withy)...and thats not even getting into his off field stuff!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 to be fair, I expect they watch the exact same games we do, but they have access to the additional stats to assist in their decision making.
I would expect you, like me with decades of watching various levels of rugby have a pretty keen eye for what is and what isnt good, so something they have over is, is in fact access to those stats and the time to re-watch, using stats to pick thier players and determine plans for players/opposition.
I expect the software they use now is much more advanced now than it was c 2019 when I did my L2 coaching and alot is designed around stats.
Yep mate, they watch the same as us, but (and I quoting Jason Ryan) theyt watch them live and spend hours going bit with computers during week etc. Don't shoot the messenger, if you think Jason Ryan is a liar, that's up to you. It was also what Grant Fox was saying at a lunvh he was speaking at,
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@Toddy said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting that Cane doesn't make the top 10 list. Is it an adjustment to his game after his bad run of injuries or has it always been a bit of a myth that he's a dominant tackler.
Impressive from Akira to be up there after so few minutes this year.
I question the stats. Unless I need eye surgery, you couldn't convince me Ardie or Harry is a more dominant tackler than Sam.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
It was also what Grant Fox was saying at a lunvh he was speaking at,
what, that they ignore stats?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
Where's Shannon?
Getting a shoulder replacement as we speak 😉
I’m not surprised Sotutu didn’t make it but I am disappointed. And the fact he didn’t even make the ABXV suggests more to this than just down on form or not being in the top 10 of this or that.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
if you think Jason Ryan is a liar
What the fuck are you talking about?
Just asking if people don't believe him when he says they watch/ study everything a heap more than us before naming teams.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
It was also what Grant Fox was saying at a lunvh he was speaking at,
what, that they ignore stats?
No that stats were only a small part of how they picked teams, especially the limited ones we see.
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2023:
In regard to Frizell and Sotutu.
How about we pick neither?
Neither have been impressive.
I have been repeatedly told that I should be impressed by Sotutu, but I never have been.
As for Frizell, the less said about him the better.Pretty hard to disagree, I always been pretty keen on Frizells play, this year not so much, though can understand perhaps why , as Ryan says they looking for hard carrying forward etc. I would of been happy if he missed though. We probably also have to remember that there are still players to be culled before WC, so maybe having a last look at some?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2023:
I’m not surprised Sotutu didn’t make it but I am disappointed. And the fact he didn’t even make the ABXV suggests more to this than just down on form or not being in the top 10 of this or that.
I wonder if the Blues gameplan has prevented these guys from showing what they're capable of in the manner the All Black selectors were looking for.
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@antipodean so either McDonald with an FU to Foster, or Foster with an FU to McDonald.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
no a single person is saying they dont or you shouldnt watch the game live...almost all of us do...what people are saying is when THEY DO watch...he fails to impress....and then when they look at the stats....they support that he does little impressive
what youre effectively saying is...what he does...cant be quantified...and is also invisible...but its worth it
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@Kiwiwomble I admire your patience.
