All Blacks 2023
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@Mattasaurus potentially he may have been 'coaches choice'?
We know Fozzie likes him, so maybe he had final say on him, regardless of the stats?
But those are the type of stats that need to be readily available, rugby is so shit at stats for punters.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Players need consistent game time to get test rugby. Only the very very good come in and look to the manor born
Sotutu is stuck behind an ever-present who never gets hurt or tired, and plays a position that rarely makes the bench. So opportunity has been few and far between.
He's got a great skill set, and has definitely shown work rate, and I am so disappointed he's not picked.
Because he is a back masquerading as a loose forward, he doesn't hit enough rucks, lacks physicality, is noticeably skinny (106kg) for someone of his height & position, doesn't dominate collisions, only upside is attacking threat, but is simply not dominant enough on both sides of the ball to excel against better sides (non-Australian opposition).
Are you talking about Savea or Sotutu?
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Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I decided to answer my own question. Where is Shannon?
Well I found the data for almost the full regular season.. it doesn't include the final round robin match
Shannon 10 games (684mins) 3 dominant tackles
That's a per 80minute stat of 0.35
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
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@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
And I would hope Fozzie (and Jase Ryan) would say, we actually watch ruby and don't just read stats!! I really wonder at people who continually use stats, do we just not watch games, get some boffins to give us stats and we will pick our teams from that!! I prefer the reasoning that Jason Ryan uses, they picked forwards to play game they want!
And I admit to being pretty keen on how Ryan seems to look at game! -
@Dan54 to be fair, I expect they watch the exact same games we do, but they have access to the additional stats to assist in their decision making.
I would expect you, like me with decades of watching various levels of rugby have a pretty keen eye for what is and what isnt good, so something they have over is, is in fact access to those stats and the time to re-watch, using stats to pick thier players and determine plans for players/opposition.
I expect the software they use now is much more advanced now than it was c 2019 when I did my L2 coaching and alot is designed around stats.
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Alright, listen up, you young whippersnappers! It's time for a lesson in rugby knowledge! When it comes to rugby selections, nobody, should dare question the decisions made by the experts! These selectors know the game inside out, and they've earned their positions of authority. So, keep your uninformed opinions to yourselves!!!
Now, let's talk about those journalists! Some of 'em may use stats to support the selectors' choices, and that's fine! But let me tell you, it's absolutely NOT okay for some random forum poster to use the same stats to question the journalist's position. Who do they think they are?! Only the journalists have the right to manipulate stats to fit their narrative, not some armchair analyst!
So, here's the deal, kiddos. Sit back, shut your traps, and let the experts and their media cronies dictate the rugby narrative. They know best, and you lot need to learn some respect! Don't you dare think you're on the same level as these rugby pundits, because you're not!!!
Now, take a deep breath and try to keep up with the wisdom I'm sharing. I know it may be a struggle for you, but that's just the way it is. So, next time you're tempted to question the rugby selections or challenge the pundits, just remember your place, and don't you dare forget it!!!
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@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
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@Kiwiwomble
Yep doesn't make any difference the eye and stats seem to paint the same picture of why. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Yup. The stats reinforce exactly what has been said in Highlanders threads throughout the year. Plenty of people noticed the drop off in Shannons contact work
Paul Cully used these stats to explain why Sotutu was (correctly) dropped, but seemed to omit stats for a player he's a been a big promotor of.
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@Duluth and i'll admit i was a frizell fan, his first season for the landers was epic, was it his debut he score three tries against the blues?...but even i gave up thinking he should be an BA ages ago....and the last couple of seasons even his Highlander performances have fallen back in line with the other loosies we have if not less than (see renton, withy)...and thats not even getting into his off field stuff!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 to be fair, I expect they watch the exact same games we do, but they have access to the additional stats to assist in their decision making.
I would expect you, like me with decades of watching various levels of rugby have a pretty keen eye for what is and what isnt good, so something they have over is, is in fact access to those stats and the time to re-watch, using stats to pick thier players and determine plans for players/opposition.
I expect the software they use now is much more advanced now than it was c 2019 when I did my L2 coaching and alot is designed around stats.
Yep mate, they watch the same as us, but (and I quoting Jason Ryan) theyt watch them live and spend hours going bit with computers during week etc. Don't shoot the messenger, if you think Jason Ryan is a liar, that's up to you. It was also what Grant Fox was saying at a lunvh he was speaking at,
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@Toddy said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting that Cane doesn't make the top 10 list. Is it an adjustment to his game after his bad run of injuries or has it always been a bit of a myth that he's a dominant tackler.
Impressive from Akira to be up there after so few minutes this year.
I question the stats. Unless I need eye surgery, you couldn't convince me Ardie or Harry is a more dominant tackler than Sam.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
It was also what Grant Fox was saying at a lunvh he was speaking at,
what, that they ignore stats?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
Where's Shannon?
Getting a shoulder replacement as we speak 😉
I’m not surprised Sotutu didn’t make it but I am disappointed. And the fact he didn’t even make the ABXV suggests more to this than just down on form or not being in the top 10 of this or that.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
if you think Jason Ryan is a liar
What the fuck are you talking about?
Just asking if people don't believe him when he says they watch/ study everything a heap more than us before naming teams.
