6N Ireland v England
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Oh dear, and he is, presumably, paid to comment on the game!
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/sonny-bill-williams-makes-shock-predictions-for-six-nations-finale/ar-AA18MN4A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a3a0970317054bb4bef563afab774e10&ei=16 -
@Higgins said in 6N Ireland v England:
Oh dear, and he is, presumably, paid to comment on the game!
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/sports/other/sonny-bill-williams-makes-shock-predictions-for-six-nations-finale/ar-AA18MN4A?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a3a0970317054bb4bef563afab774e10&ei=16I’d be talking shit too if Mark Hunt had knocked me out
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I'm normally stentorian in spurning the adjudications of the match officials, but I can't see how that's not a RC. A pity, because with some better individual decision making England were well in that match.
Well done to Ireland on the GS.
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Once this Ireland have finished partying tonight, they can have a nice lazy Sunday and bask in the glow of a grand slam.
And come Monday morning they can call their travel agent and ask for a return flight from Paris to Dublin on October 15th because they are 100% going out in the quarters.
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Lol meme game
Ireland tried to fucking choke that so hard, only for the ref to bail them out.
England just turned it in to a mouthy shitfight in the 2nd half and it nearly fucking worked. But 40+ minutes is a long time to be down to 14
Sheehan's try was so fucking good, a great set piece try
England defended so well for the most part but their attack sucks, Farrell is where attacking rugby goes to die.
Well done Ireland, deserved title, really good team playing with complete confidence in their plan. It wasn't overly tested today but their defence is pretty awesome.
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This game contained so much of the thing that passes me off most in rugby
The complete ignoring of the breakdown work of the team in possession.
On your feet? No. All good play on
Diving over the ruck? No? All good play onTest rugby is less and less a game of constant contest
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@Kruse said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Really not convinced on that RC.
Infield argument was no mitigation but to me the starting premise was all wrong.
Was there head contact? Yes
Was there foul play? Very debatable. The player certainly looked to decide to pull away from a collision. Looked very accidental to me. Did he make the right choice in trying to pull out? No. But that’s not foul play. That’s a split second decision to try and avoid danger that went the other way.
Add to that the Ireland player charged head first into contact while out of control while regathering and it was all just a rugby accident to my eyes.The problem is - "Foul Play" doesn't actually mean "foul play" anymore.
Just like "Deliberate Knock-On" doesn't actually/literally define what the offence actually is.
"just a rugby accident" - which involves contact to the head - is Foul Play. And will be penalised.
The sooner the players realise that - the less cards there will be.
The sooner the pundits realise that - the sooner we can stop hearing the infantile whines of "The game is an absolute joke."The thing is that head contact and foul play are meant to be two separate decisions not one equals the other.
Other refs would have seen that as passive as well.
I’m not sure how enforcement of the head contact rules would have stopped that. It wasn’t reckless technique it was a player making a decision that could have come of but ended up bad. He was definitely trying to avoid doing something wrong and in doing so, did. -
I felt it a soft red but was not surprised by the outcome. Of the pundits’ comments, Jamie Heaslip nailed it for me, along the lines of “it was a rugby incident, not much else Steward could have done but once it goes to the protocols it’s not going to be good”.
For me the question is not whether that was a red or not, it is whether we have the protocols right. And I don’t feel we do.
Anyway congratulations to Ireland on a deserved title, unlucky France who played some really good rugby. Big plus points for Scotland and Italy but oh God England and Wales are all over the shop. Neither can be looking at the World Cup with any degree of confidence.
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
The thing is that head contact and foul play are meant to be two separate decisions not one equals the other.
A few years ago, sure.
Not any more.
Again: "Foul Play" no longer means "foul play".
In my opinion - the biggest problem with the Rugby Laws currently, are all the misnomers.
(In regards to the fucking confusion with fans wailing about shit. As to whether the Laws are actually in the right place... completely different conversation) -
That worked out well for the Ireland team. Much better performance from England this week.
Looking forward to the other possible Grand Slam today as Ireland U20s take on England U20s in Cork.
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@Kruse said in 6N Ireland v England:
@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
The thing is that head contact and foul play are meant to be two separate decisions not one equals the other.
A few years ago, sure.
Not any more.
Again: "Foul Play" no longer means "foul play".
In my opinion - the biggest problem with the Rugby Laws currently, are all the misnomers.
(In regards to the fucking confusion with fans wailing about shit. As to whether the Laws are actually in the right place... completely different conversation)I quote from the World Rugby application guidelines
Process questions and considerations
- Has head contact occurred?
Head contact includes neck and throat area - Was there foul play?
Considerations:
• Intentional • Reckless
• Avoidable
I don’t think Peyper ran through that at all.
It wasn’t intentional, only possibly reckless as his act was trying to avoid and it went wrong. Obviously wasn’t avoidable because he tried and failed. - Has head contact occurred?
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@mariner4life said in 6N Ireland v England:
This game contained so much of the thing that passes me off most in rugby
The complete ignoring of the breakdown work of the team in possession.
On your feet? No. All good play on
Diving over the ruck? No? All good play onTest rugby is less and less a game of constant contest
Because this has been eradicated from Super Rugby
Said no one ever
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@Catogrande said in 6N Ireland v England:
I felt it a soft red but was not surprised by the outcome. Of the pundits’ comments, Jamie Heaslip nailed it for me, along the lines of “it was a rugby incident, not much else Steward could have done but once it goes to the protocols it’s not going to be good”.
For me the question is not whether that was a red or not, it is whether we have the protocols right. And I don’t feel we do.
Anyway congratulations to Ireland on a deserved title, unlucky France who played some really good rugby. Big plus points for Scotland and Italy but oh God England and Wales are all over the shop. Neither can be looking at the World Cup with any degree of confidence.
Likely QF meeting between us and you
I fancy our chances of making another SF tbh
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@Crucial said in 6N Ireland v England:
Obviously wasn’t avoidable because he tried and failed.
Too late.
He put himself into a position where it had become unavoidable.
Which was avoidable.A simplistic view, perhaps, but the sort of view that players need to be trained in, to stop this from happening.
Whether or not anybody agrees with how it's being ruled, it's pretty obvious that if you don't want to get carded, don't put yourself in a situation where it becomes a TMO lottery. -
Pretty much how I see it. The play is dead as Hansen has dribbled the ball clearly forward.
As Keenan is clearly about to play the ball there is no advantage to England so whistle has either blown or is about to be blown. Steward knows it’s scrum white and has instinctively abandoned tackling Keenan.Keenan is stooped down and connects with Stewards elbow which is tucked by his side at waist height.
To assert that Steward lead with his elbow is plain wrong. Some part of your body is going to hit Keenan first. Steward was “leading” with nothing.
If anything Keenan lead with his head.
It’s like saying Porter led with his shoulder when he broke Retallicks eye socket. He was going backwards and they labelled it an absorbing tackle , but you couldn’t say Porter lead with the shoulder.
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@Kruse said in 6N Ireland v England:
Having said that - it was an unfortunate one.
He had fuck all time to make a decision, and made the wrong one.
BUT - I guess the onus should then become... don't put yourself in that position in the first place.
As to the asinine "What else could he have done?" bleating? It's already been answered several times, but best option was probably to continue with a legal tackle.- If he was able to do that, and truly didn't have the time to do anything else - then it wouldn't be ruled as a late tackle, as he'd "already committed"
- If he wasn't able to do that, then he was never in a position to do anything other than an act of "Foul Play" -and therefore... a card was always in the pipeline anyway.
The more I see these things though, the more I like what we're doing in Super Rugby... the Yellow which can be upgraded to Red after considered unpressured reflection.
And 20 . minute red card.
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I agree the rules need looking at and doubt there was any malicious intent, but players have been aware of how this sort of stuff has been reffed for years and know the burden of proof is reversed with head contact.
The hard contact with the head and zero mitigation means it's a clear Red.
