Six Nations 2023
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
There must be a fair few PIs eligible based on grandparent rule at the moment and it will only increase in the next decade. We're going to get to the situation in the future where a number of PI rep players kids aren't eligible for that PI.
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
Budge Pountney had a grandparent from the Channel Islands so was eligible for all four nations
Sweet, me too - I reckon I could get on that Tier 2 team in white
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
Scotland - 8
Wales - 3
Ireland - 2
Italy -2
England - 1
France - 0The grandparent rule can be looked at in two different ways.
My father came to NZ from Northern Ireland as a mature man a few years after WWII ended. Eventually his children came along over a number of years and then his grandchildren. All his grandchildren had huge amounts of contact and involvement with him and were all aware of his heritage, his Irish eccentricities, and most have had contact with family "back home". The quirks of the citizenship laws in Ireland automatically make all the grandchildren citizens of the Republic of Ireland (subject to their births being registered there) and most of them travel on a Republic of Ireland Passport (British Passports being unavailable to them). Most of the grandchildren have spent time living and working in the UK. What I am trying to convey is that the grandchildren still have strong ties to their grandfather's homeland and do not use that twist of fate as an "easy way" around things.
It turns out one of my nephews is currently a part of one of the four Irish United Championship squads and is classified as a local (he is an Irish citizen after all!) and in the unlikely event he ever managed to make the Ireland team would probably be labelled as an "import" (born in NZ to a NZ father/Aussie mother and learnt his rugby in Aus). The "grandparent rule" be dammed, he is about an Irish as a kiwi can get!
The other way I refer to was the case of Thomas the Tank Waldron who had to check with his mother whether his grandparent was English before making himself available for England. If he was committed to England you would have thought he would have known that without any hesitation. -
@Higgins said in Six Nations 2023:
The "grandparent rule" be dammed, he is about an Irish as a kiwi can get!
You undermine your own argument. Although automatic citizenship certainly strengthens the Irish case.
By comparison UK citizenship is not automatic if you have a grandparent who was a UK citizen, so to my mind you should not be able to qualify for England, Wales or Scotland through the grandparent ruling.
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@dogmeat His paternal grandmother is at least 75% English but the citizenship determining part was her mother and in those days mothers were unable to pass on citizenship, despite their being no doubt of said child's English parentage (unlike many cases involving potential English fathers!). The irony of it is that her children (unlike her) are British Citizens by birthright/decent through our Irish father!!! However being born outside the UK means we can only pass on Brititsh citizenship if our children were born in the UK, none were hence the use of the Republic of Ireland citizenship and passport by the grandchildren, comes in very handy for the rugby player.
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@Higgins For a rugby player who wants to play test rugby, having a certain passport or citizenship is irrelevant. That's the whole point of the eligibility rules. It only matters for Olympic Sevens, because the Olympic Charter requires an athlete to have the citizenship of the country (s)he represents. Eligibility depends on own birthplace, (grand)parent's birthplace or residency.
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My predictions for final positions after round 1:
- Ireland
- France
- England
- Scotland
- Italy
- Wales
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@Stargazer said in Six Nations 2023:
@Higgins For a rugby player who wants to play test rugby, having a certain passport or citizenship is irrelevant. That's the whole point of the eligibility rules. It only matters for Olympic Sevens, because the Olympic Charter requires an athlete to have the citizenship of the country (s)he represents. Eligibility depends on own birthplace, (grand)parent's birthplace or residency.
Not necessarily, as being a foreign born Citizen may circumvent any residency requirements and if they are good enough (and not tied to any standdown thanks to having represented another country) they could be straight into Test rugby. Think Michael Bent might be an example of this?
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@Mackerzzzz said in Six Nations 2023:
My predictions for final positions after round 1:
- Ireland
- France
- England
- Scotland
- Italy
- Wales
😂😂😂
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@Higgins said in Six Nations 2023:
@Stargazer said in Six Nations 2023:
@Higgins For a rugby player who wants to play test rugby, having a certain passport or citizenship is irrelevant. That's the whole point of the eligibility rules. It only matters for Olympic Sevens, because the Olympic Charter requires an athlete to have the citizenship of the country (s)he represents. Eligibility depends on own birthplace, (grand)parent's birthplace or residency.
Not necessarily, as being a foreign born Citizen may circumvent any residency requirements and if they are good enough (and not tied to any standdown thanks to having represented another country) they could be straight into Test rugby. Think Michael Bent might be an example of this?
No, this is incorrect under World Rugby's eligibility rules. A player has to have a "a genuine, close, credible and established national link" with the country he wishes to represent and that link is assumed to exist if a player is born in that country, his parents or grandparents were born in that country, or he has completed a residency period of 5 years in that country (was 3 years).
See this from the World Rugby's Explanatory Guidelines on the Implementation of Regulation 8:
Michael Bent qualified for Ireland via his Irish grandmother, who was born in Dublin. -
@Crucial said in Six Nations 2023:
Apart from knowing that grandparents came from overseas they have zero attachment to that country culturally, financially or physically.
Yeah definitely depends on the culture though eh, I'll be passing on tabouli recipes to my grand nieces and nephews.
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@Bones said in Six Nations 2023:
@Crucial said in Six Nations 2023:
Apart from knowing that grandparents came from overseas they have zero attachment to that country culturally, financially or physically.
Yeah definitely depends on the culture though eh, I'll be passing on tabouli recipes to my grand nieces and nephews.
So the requirement should be changed to grandparent and the ability to cook a national dish
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@Windows97 said in Six Nations 2023:
@Bones said in Six Nations 2023:
@Crucial said in Six Nations 2023:
Apart from knowing that grandparents came from overseas they have zero attachment to that country culturally, financially or physically.
Yeah definitely depends on the culture though eh, I'll be passing on tabouli recipes to my grand nieces and nephews.
So the requirement should be changed to grandparent and the ability to cook a national dish
Just when are the Phoenix making their 7 nations debut? Might be time to start training.
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@Higgins said in Six Nations 2023:
@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
Scotland - 8
Wales - 3
Ireland - 2
Italy -2
England - 1
France - 0The grandparent rule can be looked at in two different ways.
My father came to NZ from Northern Ireland as a mature man a few years after WWII ended. Eventually his children came along over a number of years and then his grandchildren. All his grandchildren had huge amounts of contact and involvement with him and were all aware of his heritage, his Irish eccentricities, and most have had contact with family "back home". The quirks of the citizenship laws in Ireland automatically make all the grandchildren citizens of the Republic of Ireland (subject to their births being registered there) and most of them travel on a Republic of Ireland Passport (British Passports being unavailable to them). Most of the grandchildren have spent time living and working in the UK. What I am trying to convey is that the grandchildren still have strong ties to their grandfather's homeland and do not use that twist of fate as an "easy way" around things.
It turns out one of my nephews is currently a part of one of the four Irish United Championship squads and is classified as a local (he is an Irish citizen after all!) and in the unlikely event he ever managed to make the Ireland team would probably be labelled as an "import" (born in NZ to a NZ father/Aussie mother and learnt his rugby in Aus). The "grandparent rule" be dammed, he is about an Irish as a kiwi can get!
The other way I refer to was the case of Thomas the Tank Waldron who had to check with his mother whether his grandparent was English before making himself available for England. If he was committed to England you would have thought he would have known that without any hesitation.So they feel Irish?
Sorry, means nothing to me (in terms of an argument for eligibility).
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Stop press:
Ben Youngs (and hopefully the shite box kick in the opposition 22) have been axed.
England Six Nations 2025 squad: Fin Smith and Marcus Smith start together against France
Steve Borthwick names his England Six Nations 2025 team to face France at the Allianz Stadium, Twickenham, on Saturday 8 February.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Stop press:
Ben Youngs (and hopefully the shite box kick in the opposition 22) have been axed.
England Six Nations 2025 squad: Fin Smith and Marcus Smith start together against France
Steve Borthwick names his England Six Nations 2025 team to face France at the Allianz Stadium, Twickenham, on Saturday 8 February.
Well the Dutch named guy was doing it too, so obviously a game plan.
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Racist!
But true he did, however (from memory) not so much when we were hot on attack practically on the Scots’ 22. Certainly not so many times in such a short period and most definitely not when we’re chasing a 3 point game with about 5 minutes to go. Lastly JVPF has certainly not been doing that for the last four years. Plus, I’d be surprised if that was a game plan with Nick Evans as attack coach. At least it had better not be! 😤
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Great story. Like to think this sort of thing would still happen today.
'At least we turned up' – The day England went into the heart of the Troubles
Fifty years on from John Pullin and his team deciding to play in Dublin, Telegraph Sport revisits one of rugby's most significant matches
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18-9 to Ireland
Tries worth 4 point.
England 1 converted try + a penalty
and Ireland 2 converted tries plus a dropped goal and a penalty
