Foster, Robertson etc
-
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Robertson, last time I checked, is preparing him for Super Rugby, not Test footy
That's the thing. Test footy is very different to Super Rugby and that goes for the coaching as well.
-
@Victor-Meldrew and just like when players move up, some thrive some don't.
I have no doubt in my mind Robertson would have had made RM a better international level 10 than Foster seems to have, but, we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak.
That's not to say he would have had success with other players that have struggled to impose themselves as expected either (Akira, Hoskins, Vaai, to name a few)
That being said, again, I don't doubt that we would see improvement across the board for the team if Roberston had been handed the reigns at the end of 2021.
But, we have also seen that it is the coaching team that is key, Foster with better people around him, has shown improvements.
Anywhoo....when does the rugby start?
-
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If we're going to blame coaches for Mo'unga's struggles at test level, maybe we could point the finger at Robertson for having him focus on playing a style that is not conducive to test footy at Super level.
Robertson, last time I checked, is preparing him for Super Rugby, not Test footy.
True, given Robertson doesn't have any real experience at test level, do you think he'll be able to adjust his gameplan to have immediate success at that level? Or do we accept that he'll have a bit of a learning curve when he first takes the reigns?
World Cup winning coaches McQueen, Woodward, White, & Erasmus, didn't have prior international experience.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If we're going to blame coaches for Mo'unga's struggles at test level, maybe we could point the finger at Robertson for having him focus on playing a style that is not conducive to test footy at Super level.
Robertson, last time I checked, is preparing him for Super Rugby, not Test footy.
True, given Robertson doesn't have any real experience at test level, do you think he'll be able to adjust his gameplan to have immediate success at that level? Or do we accept that he'll have a bit of a learning curve when he first takes the reigns?
World Cup winning coaches McQueen, Woodward, White, & Erasmus, didn't have prior international experience.
One of his assistants has already shown himself to be international quality. In fact he made an almost immediate impact on our forward pack. The guy deserves a chance to prove he can rise to the next level
-
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@No-Quarter said in Foster, Robertson etc:
If we're going to blame coaches for Mo'unga's struggles at test level, maybe we could point the finger at Robertson for having him focus on playing a style that is not conducive to test footy at Super level.
Robertson, last time I checked, is preparing him for Super Rugby, not Test footy.
True, given Robertson doesn't have any real experience at test level, do you think he'll be able to adjust his gameplan to have immediate success at that level? Or do we accept that he'll have a bit of a learning curve when he first takes the reigns?
World Cup winning coaches McQueen, Woodward, White, & Erasmus, didn't have prior international experience.
In Erasmus's case. barely even with his own team. Macqueen had only a couple of years with Australia.
The "need international experience" is utter BS, used to explain why the preferred candidate is selected rather than measuring on objective record. It means they could pick Foster over Joseph, despite Foster's terrible record as a coach. Because that was literally all he had that was better.
It has zero to do with how well they do. Or, in the case of Joseph and Foster, how well they have gone on to do.
-
If the full CV isn't enough, there are plenty of comments from players, and other top-tier coaches about how forward thinking and innovative Robertson evidently is. It's that whole package that gets people excited.
The international experience argument really seems to be a go-to for Foster apologists - Jake White only coached 1 season with one team (SA U20's), prior to being appointed Springbok coach in 2004 (2007 RWC winner), without even provincial coaching experience. Rod MacQueen had only coached the Brumbies.
Robertson coached Crusaders to 6 Super titles in 6 seasons, Canterbury to 3 provincial titles in 4 seasons, 93% record in 2 seasons with NZ U20's (2nd best of anyone) & won the Chch metro club title with a previously last placed Sumner.
Overall, that's 12 years head coaching experience, so it's fair to say ironically, he's a more experienced head coach than those World Cup winning coaches at the time they got appointed. And at 48, he's not exactly young either. England just appointed Borthwick who's 43. Andy Farrell was also just 43 when he was replaced Schmidt.
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
-
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
-
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
-
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
Indeed, the press seems to think so with Razor getting his overseas stint for a return for 2027 RWC.
-
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
Indeed, the press seems to think so with Razor getting his overseas stint for a return for 2027 RWC.
Scotland would be a great fit for Razor.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
Indeed, the press seems to think so with Razor getting his overseas stint for a return for 2027 RWC.
Scotland would be a great fit for Razor.
Yeah that's been mentioned in multiple articles.
-
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
we will never know now as RM probably won't play under him at International level and he is also likely at the period right now when he should be at his peak
But just pure dumb luck that he's leaving just as Robertson is about to become the AB coach - and not just having a sabbatical like everyone else, but getting the fuck outta dodge. Hmmmm.....
Word around is Joseph maybe the preferred NZR choice as AB coach.
Indeed, the press seems to think so with Razor getting his overseas stint for a return for 2027 RWC.
Yep there is talk out there of that all happening.
-
if this is the case, just highlights how poorly run NZR are.
Last time they had minimal applicants due to people thinking it was a done deal, this time, 10 months or so before any announcement is to be made, presumably prior to any official applications, media already painting a picture of a done deal, that may or may not have some truth to it.
Last time didnt they send out 'invitations' to eligible coaches after the RWC?
-
@taniwharugby to 26 coaches who were already on multi-year contracts, handsomely paid overseas gigs, comfortable in their job security, so would never apply...
-
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
if this is the case, just highlights how poorly run NZR are.
Last time they had minimal applicants due to people thinking it was a done deal, this time, 10 months or so before any announcement is to be made, presumably prior to any official applications, media already painting a picture of a done deal, that may or may not have some truth to it.
Last time didnt they send out 'invitations' to eligible coaches after the RWC?
Or they are actually thinking ahead like any good business and lining up successors. They are damned whatever they do. I'm not being an apologist, just realistic that they will know way more about the candidates, the board direction for the game and the needs/wants of coaches out there.
Punters think it is simple because they hate Foster and like Razor. What if JJ was told to go away and get test experience so that he is ready? Do you give the job to someone without test experience and probably lose JJ and Brown forever? Do you tell Razor to do what JJ has done and come back next cycle?Edit: I think Tony Brown is the most important part of the equation we are missing tbh.
Ryan on forwards, Brown on backs attack.
-
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
What if JJ was told to go away and get test experience so that he is ready?
so its a done deal then? THats my point.
If it is (that I doubt is even close) make the announcement now.
It isnt a fact of disliking Foster, liking Razor, its what seems incompetence and lack of transperancy.
If they have a succession plan, as it appears they did last time, say it, dont go through the motions of appeasing the public when you arent going to do what it would seem they want (as much as the media say they do anyway)
There is either a process, or there isnt.
I honestly dont give a shit who the coach is, as long as they are the best candidate.
-
Cully's article from yesterday sums up the current situation. I would disagree with him on one important point. That is, if the ABs do win the RWC Foster should still move on as there needs to be a refresh of personnel/ideas at regular intervals. I can also sympathise with NZR that they are in a no-win situation because naming a AB coach for 2024 now could be a destabilising factor for the 2023 RWC preparations. They should be proactively having discussions now with all potential candidates even if no public decision/announcement is made until after the RWC. Having an informal agreement in place is as good as announcing the coach now as word would soon get out.
-
I really do not believe they will go with anyone but Razor in 2024.
Every step of the way
thislast year we've just heard gossip and rumour, this is just another one.I think if Razor wasn't going to get the role
thisnext year then I think he would have wanted and NZR would have granted him a release from his contract fornextthis year. -
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It isnt a fact of disliking Foster, liking Razor, its what seems incompetence and lack of transperancy.
While understanding what you saying taniwha, I not sure what the lack of transperancy is,. Almost every board in world makes decision when they need etc, and release it to public when they feel time was/is right. Rennies was approached by RA months before it was made public, England just met behind closed doors fired Jones, and then were stum on replacement until they were ready to say. Same with Gatland and Wales etc, I not real convinced it helps anyone to know what is going on except the people involved. I believe they could be still seeing who wants the gig etc and then go through processes. Like you I just want best candidate to get job, and shouldn't ruch decision until all factors are covered. And from what I have seen same in any sports, not just rugby.
