All Blacks v England
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
There is a nexus of negativity infecting some posters at the moment, they need a glass of enjoy your fucking sport.
funnily enough, that is exactly why I havent watched a full AB game since the Irish test series, lack of enjoyment...I have only watched highlights of the northern tour games, but watched the full AB XV games, watched numerous BF games, only because I had stopped enjoying watching the ABs play at the moment, so though the best way to deal with that, was stop watching.
I still enjoy watching rugby, but am more picky about what I am watching.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
I'm happy to point out the positive
What's the positive?
With Clarke? His work under the high ball, breaks he's been making, work in close getting over the advantage line. Just off the top of my head.
Workons? Tackling/defence in general, link play, staying on his feet in general.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
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Just to add, the reason why I'm not too concerned is that I don't see a new wing as requiring much time to assimilate or build a combination - Telea slotted in fine in his first outing, LF is an option, even Stevenson if he kicks on next year. Add Jordan and Reece to the mix, and we will be fine
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
Just to add, the reason why I'm not too concerned is that I don't see a new wing as requiring much time to assimilate or build a combination - Telea slotted in fine in his first outing, LF is an option, even Stevenson if he kicks on next year. Add Jordan and Reece to the mix, and we will be fine
Yeah, Milner-Skudder proved that point in 2015.
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one concession i give clarke, for whatever reason, we dont seem to flush from right to left....i just dont remember many times where the ball has gone through the hand to put clarke in space. we see him more on crash ball coming in from the blind side and he obvious get s shot on the counter where he seems very comfortable under the highball...just need to work on finding the gaps
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@Kiwiwomble and he might have to work more around the rucks and have less ball, because that's where we need to dominate ( the forwards) before we do the spiny thing along the back line. It's taken Foster 3 years to figure this out. Perhaps more if considering time with Hansen.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
It's the area of our game which hasn't improved.
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I wonder if they need fresh coaching ideas on defense, other teams predict us too well and players are getting isolated, out of position, or targetted.
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@nostrildamus Sure the Irish did that.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
And Havili attacks very differently for the Crusaders and has had great success, but hey that doesn’t matter 😎
There’s a couple of things I notice with Clarke’s defence - he seems flat footed and hence we’ve seen him chasing the player far too often; he just misreads the attack, that’s not pattern it’s just about decision making.
Hopefully he can turn it around because the more other teams see footage of his play, it will be exploited over and over.
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D Duluth forked this topic on
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
Agreed on that aspect as evidenced. But the sevens coaches did not seem to be able to improve his defensive positioning and decision making either.
It is always about matching a set of skills to the game plan for coaches. I. E. Linebreaking power v agility and speed to react. No issues with the former.
I think Nankivell and Aumua need to be viewed in a similar light across the full skillset. The former has lapses in passing accuracy but is exceptional elsewhere.
