All Blacks vs Wales
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But he’ll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isn’t going to be phased by Jordie’s size. He won’t be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
Yeah he won't be as effective as he was against the Wallabies, but fuck having Havili face those big midfielders! Put it this way, Havili paired with Mo'unga makes me very nervous against the top sides. Put Jordie in there to at least match their physicality and we look a damn sight stronger already.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
Yawn. This discussion has been done to death.
Um, this is the Fern. Where middle aged men go to repeat themselves over and over again.
Particularly funny coming from the bloke who has made the same post about DMac about 3x per week
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Old-Samurai-Jack I can only remember the one where instead of passing to Jordie in space he went himself and managed to get an offload away.
To be fair I'm probably thinking more of last year, where Jordan couldn't find his team mates to save himself. So maybe he's improved this year, but yeah stats would tell the better story. I don't see him as better than Clarke though.
I don't think it is close.
I pointed it out earlier this year where Caleb's stats across two of the latter tests (maybe Arg II and Oz I) were something like 20 runs and 1 pass. The 1 pass is exact.
Saturday vs Japan was 13 runs and 1 pass, which I think got deflected.
That's 2 more passes than I'd expect from a winger.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
So much faith here in Jordie B at 12 based on 1 good game. I hope it’s not misplaced
One game at test level, but the faith is based on his previous experience playing there at NPC and Super level. And more importantly, the physical attributes and skillset he can bring to the position, we just don't have another player that compares at the moment.
But he’ll be using those attributes against midfielders who have specialised in those positions, and not just at lower levels. Most of them are pretty big units themselves, if not as tall. Farrell and Watkin are of a similar weight and Tuilagi isn’t going to be phased by Jordie’s size. He won’t be able to dominate like he did against Aus I suspect,
Yeah he won't be as effective as he was against the Wallabies, but fuck having Havili face those big midfielders! Put it this way, Havili paired with Mo'unga makes me very nervous against the top sides. Put Jordie in there to at least match their physicality and we look a damn sight stronger already.
Oh no question, he’s got more upside than Havili. I just get wary of the vibe that after one admittedly very solid test the country let their collective breath out and started talking like the dysfunctional centre pairings we’ve been using since Conrad and Ma’a left are instantly resolved.
IMO we’ve still got some big issues there. They’re as poorly coached as the rest of the backs, they are short of a run, their defensive structures are fragile and slow to react and as a unit they haven’t been tested under pressure by a top 3 side. What we definitely gain with Jordie is distribution and a coherent five-eighths unit with an actual tactical kicking threat. If we play another game this year with only Richie’s Tokyo kicking game we’re going to get our arses handed to us.
So yeah, play him. But temper our expectations.
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
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Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
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Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
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I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
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Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
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Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
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I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
I can’t wait as it’s 50/50 Foster will start JB at 12.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
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Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
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Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
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I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
I can’t wait as it’s 50/50 Foster will start JB at 12.
It's not even close to 50/50. It's very unlikely he'll start JB at 12. I don't see why there'd be a meltdown though, it's highly expected, surely?
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
-
Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
-
Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
-
I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
I can’t wait as it’s 50/50 Foster will start JB at 12.
It's not even close to 50/50. It's very unlikely he'll start JB at 12. I don't see why there'd be a meltdown though, it's highly expected, surely?
I expect it,so I am sure others on here will as well.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
-
Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
-
Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
-
I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
I can’t wait as it’s 50/50 Foster will start JB at 12.
It's not even close to 50/50. It's very unlikely he'll start JB at 12. I don't see why there'd be a meltdown though, it's highly expected, surely?
I expect it,so I am sure others on here will as well.
The final nail in his coffin
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
In regard to the team in the OP:
-
Pretty sure Retallick will be out and Barrett to 4. Probably Vaa'i on the bench, but maybe Big Patty.
-
Pretty likely to see Frizell at 6 and Akira on the bench.
-
I reckon Jordan being out makes it less likely they'll try Jordie at 12 for this one. I won't be surprised to see Havili at 12 and Beaudy on the bench.
If Jordie doesn't start at 12 the meltdown on here is going to be fucking epic
Too right it will be.
I can’t wait as it’s 50/50 Foster will start JB at 12.
It's not even close to 50/50. It's very unlikely he'll start JB at 12. I don't see why there'd be a meltdown though, it's highly expected, surely?
I expect it,so I am sure others on here will as well.
The final nail in his coffin
He is like a vampire hundreds of nails in his coffin and he keeps rising lol.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
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@Victor-Meldrew well yeah, that's what most of us would consider obvious. But most of us also thought it was obvious after last year that Taukieaho is the best hooker and that Taylor should only be considered as experienced cover.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
Honestly, If he picks anyone other than Jordie at 12 then he is an even worse coach than I imagined.
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew well yeah, that's what most of us would consider obvious. But most of us also thought it was obvious after last year that Taukieaho is the best hooker and that Taylor should only be considered as experienced cover.
Foster & co seem naturally cautious and risk-averse so I can understand their thinking around Taukieaho ( and I actually like the way they are managing his workload) and why they were loathe to move Jordie to 12 as he was bloody good in the 15 jersey. May disagree, but there's a logic to it
But playing Jordie at 12 is pretty risk free now DH & ALB are back - even if he only gets 40 minutes there.
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But temper our expectations.
Yeah sure. But people keep bringing up that it was only Australia. Because we've seen so many 12s in the past half a dozen years absolutely boss Australia? Is that it? Or we have a number of 12s that have dominated any other team?
It was a performance for the ages, an eye opening one where we've got used to seeing someone having a decently solid performance and being excited about that. Why shouldn't we be hopeful and optimistic?
No other 12 has come close to that performance, I don't care who against. I get it, there's a handful of guys who might finally be right with their broken record drivel about Jordie at 12 and that should not be allowed to happen, but alas they might just be right.
My take. The only way we're going to find out if Jordie actually is the answer at 12, isn't a one-Test wonder in that position and can repeat his performance against top NH sides is to, well, actually play him at 12 against top NH sides. This isn't an RTS situation - he's very experienced at Test level and at 12 at Super level.
He needs to start at 12 against Wales with Havili and/or ALB on the bench. If it doesn't pan out he can move to 15 and DH/ALB can come into midfield. It really is a no-brainer and pretty risk-free.
If Foster doesn't play JB at 12 he is a fool
Honestly, If he picks anyone other than Jordie at 12 then he is an even worse coach than I imagined.
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
Even if he isn't convinced, why would you not want to see if JB can do the business against the better NH sides on tour? He already knows what the others bring to the table
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
It won't be clear if he doesn't play him
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
