So what did we learn from Bled2?
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I think if we are going to persist with both Clarke and Ioane in the starting backline them we need to find a few inventive ways to better use them because I don’t think either of them are natural ball players. I think part of our fluency issues is because we want the ball in their hands to run but more often than not our attack is breaking down because they are either unwilling passers or they’re not confident doing it. To me it’s both a mental and skill thing.
This is not a criticism but if we are wanting to improve our efficiency we are going to have see a rapid improvement quickly or a change needs to occur.
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Awesome knowing we have a stable scrum. Unreal . A decent scrum was becoming a hazy memory
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Has Sami become number 1 hooker passing Fitz and Coles in the GOAT AB team of recent living memory?
Peak Coles was my number 1 but it's getting close -
@BerniesCorner said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Has Sami become number 1 hooker passing Fitz and Coles in the GOAT AB team of recent living memory?
Peak Coles was my number 1 but it's getting closeI know he’s playing well, but it’s pretty early days. He hasn’t even reached Mealamu level let alone the lofty heights of Fitzy.
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So what did we learn from Bled2?That the two camps will never meet halfway on Akira Ioane.
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@ACT-Crusader Yet peak Coles redefined the position especially on the wing!
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@junior said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
This is very true but he has come on leaps and bounds in the relatively short time he has been a test match centre. If he continues on his current trajectory, he could be an absolute phenomenon at the RWC next year. Why give up that possibility, and the significant time that has been invested in his development to date, just because there remain a few rough edges
I liked the way he combined with a new centre yesterday from what little I saw. If he can keep his support runners with him and learn to hold the ball better, a la Conrad, rather than swap it from hand-hand, he'll be almost there.
That may sound like basic stuff, but his other play inc. his scramble defence, makes up for it IMHO.
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I think the obvious thing to me is we have 3 test level fullbacks in JB, BB and WJ and really there is not that much between them.
At 12 we have no options as good as those three fullbacks. So JB to 12 has to be a no brainer as you still have two good options at 15. If we use JB at 15 we have no really good options at 12. Simples.
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@TheMojoman said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
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Jordie is our best 12. He’s the missing piece at 12. Helps Richie with a running options and holds the defence creating more space for Rieko. Run, kick pass threat who can hit hard on defence. That said Fozzie will prob play him on wing now.
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We now have enormous depth in the front row to the point Ta’avao can’t even get a look in.
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Papali’i makes Cane redundant especially when Whitelock, Savea and Smith are available as captains.
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Akira Ioane needs to be persevered at 6. He showed he can play tight and defend well when the physicality stakes were high. Basically can do what Frizell, Barrett can do with much more upside.
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BB is the best option at FB giving us a triple pivot capability. That means Jordan is at 14. He’d make a great test FB but in the current setup he’s a 14.
They want Jordan at 14 to play a roving role and go looking for the ball , not be stuck out on the wing , it looks like to me he is starting to get the hang of that , starting to bob up more in the middle of the field ,
Hopefully just because he wears 14 on his back it doesn’t matter , we can still utilise all the good stuff that he brings
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@kiwiinmelb doesn't hurt that Reece came on and made an immediate impact. It was great to see Jordan playing well and looking more confident. But having all 3 of our main wing options playing well adds that extra spice.
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@ACT-Crusader said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think if we are going to persist with both Clarke and Ioane in the starting backline them we need to find a few inventive ways to better use them because I don’t think either of them are natural ball players. I think part of our fluency issues is because we want the ball in their hands to run but more often than not our attack is breaking down because they are either unwilling passers or they’re not confident doing it. To me it’s both a mental and skill thing.
This is not a criticism but if we are wanting to improve our efficiency we are going to have see a rapid improvement quickly or a change needs to occur.
I don't agree. With Mo'unga, Jordie and Beauden we have ample play makers. What we need to compliment them is people that are genuine threats with ball in hand, otherwise we'll find it hard to break down organised defenses. I think the balance of the backline we ran out was perfect, the biggest question mark was how Mo'unga and Beauden would go together, and it's clear they've done a lot of work there as this time around they really complimented each other.
I really, really hope we give this backline as much gametime as possible leading up to the RWC. It's so important that they are allowed to grow as a unit over a number of tests. I think other teams would be extremely weary of having to defend multiple play makers with Rieko, Clarke and Jordan running off them.
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@broughie said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@SBW1 is Goodhue returning.? We have been waiting for years and although obviously one of Fozzies faves he really needs to earn his spot back. Goodhue is the new Kahui but not as good.
Kahui was so good. Very unlucky with injuries and Smith and Nonu having a mortgage on the midfield spots. Could really smash guys over with the best of them.
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@chimoaus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think the obvious thing to me is we have 3 test level fullbacks in JB, BB and WJ and really there is not that much between them.
At 12 we have no options as good as those three fullbacks. So JB to 12 has to be a no brainer as you still have two good options at 15. If we use JB at 15 we have no really good options at 12. Simples.
We've also got Perofeta and DMac as options at fullback.
But, none of these guys are like Jordie who is a great big bastard who commands the air - and is the closest thing we've had to Don Clarke since Don Clarke. Our defensive system has the wings pushing up and in - and leaving the opposition wings for the second line - i.e. Jordie to smash, which he does very well. I don't trust any of the other four to play that role effectively, so are we risking it, or chucking our whole defensive system out (OK cue the McLeod jokes, but I doubt we've got 10 tests before RWC)?
On the plus side, we've got ALB due back very shortly (and potentially Goodhue next year) as more powerful second five options than Havili.
Don't get me wrong - I was on the Jordie to 12 bandwagon a couple of years ago, maybe even at the start of this season - but it's late in the piece to be making a sea-change.
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@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I don't agree. With Mo'unga, Jordie and Beauden we have ample play makers. What we need to compliment them is
Less critical fans?
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@Chris-B said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@No-Quarter said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I don't agree. With Mo'unga, Jordie and Beauden we have ample play makers. What we need to compliment them is
Less critical fans?
Hey I've been very measured in my analysis of Mo'unga, there were a couple of errors he made I could have gone to town on him over
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@Chris-B I'm very sympathetic to your views on Jordie at the back, I was of the same view about moving him to 12, but I think he can be more influential there for the ABs where we can better utilise his strength with ball in hand and hard hitting defense. That said, if Beauden got injured that'd throw a big spanner in the works.
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I think they should use Jordie at 12 against the big physical teams and persist with Havili against weaker opponents, if only to have match fit cover if Jordie goes down injured or has a Barrett Brain fart and gets a red card. We need more than one 12 and at the moment, Havili is the best back-up. Never put all your money on one player.
For the same reason, they should give Reece some starts on the wing and slot Jordan in at fullback (maybe in the second half) in some games.
