All Blacks v Wales Test #3

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="590753" data-time="1466647339">
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I actually don't think the changes are that drastic.
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In a way not - but, in the wider context - this is quite a different team to that which played the World Cup final (three tests ago).
 
Thirteen of the match day 23, but I think only six guys in the starting XV playing in the position they did in November.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="590771" data-time="1466650467">
In a way not - but, in the wider context - this is quite a different team to that which played the World Cup final (three tests ago). 
Thirteen of the match day 23, but I think only six guys in the starting XV playing in the position they did in November.</blockquote>
 
The changes are very much about the RWC cycle that is a feature for all test nations I think. 
Look at Wales, they've only got 6 in their starting lineup for Saturday that also started in the QF loss to the Boks.

Catogrande

Mike? Poolerfan? I see the whole coaching team has now been re-signed to the 2019 RWC and beyond. Happy or not with that? I'd have thought staleness might be a problem with a tenure of that length?

LagerLout

If we can't experiment Year 1 after a WC in the third rubber of a test series already won, when can we. I could see us losing this, which OK, wouldn't be great, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.
 
Be good to put some players under some proper pressure. I reckon one of the reasons they bought Savea back was to put some seniority back in the team that would have been lacking starting with Naholo.
 
This years RC looks like it's going to be a strange affair to me with some topsy turvy results, none of the SH teams will be established or at full strength.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LagerLout" data-cid="590819" data-time="1466669587">
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If we can't experiment Year 1 after a WC in the third rubber of a test series already won, when can we. I could see us losing this, which OK, wouldn't be great, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.
 
Be good to put some players under some proper pressure. I reckon one of the reasons they bought Savea back was to put some seniority back in the team that would have been lacking starting with Naholo.
 
This years RC looks like it's going to be a strange affair to me with some topsy turvy results, none of the SH teams will be established or at full strength. 
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think you might be wrong there, the Mayans predicted it!

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="590811" data-time="1466667744">
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Mike? Poolerfan? I see the whole coaching team has now been re-signed to the 2019 RWC and beyond. Happy or not with that? I'd have thought staleness might be a problem with a tenure of that length?
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If Wales win on Saturday (having to) playing the more expansive style of rugby the Welsh rugby public - and I suspect the players - have been clamouring for for what feels like an eternity, then the decision will be totally justified.
 
Gatland will get knighted and be first choice Lions coach.
 
If Wales lose narrowly, then eyebrows will be raised and the forgiving amongst us will say 'ok, give them time to show that we can be successful with a new style'.
 
If NZ finally break loose as they threatened to do in third quarter of the 2nd Test - especially with the changes Shag has made this week - then you really have to question whether this coaching group is up to the task.
 
Personally I would have kept things the way they are, with McBryde and Howley on notice.
 
Our defence hasn't been as tight as in previous seasons but I think that's as much a function of us not being coherent going forwards and better teams targeting mismatches and space when counter-attacking opportunities have presented themselves.
 
Barrett played hell with the Roberts-Davies axis in the 2nd Test because Roberts should have been substituted. I don't expect a repeat of that (slow defending) this Saturday.

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="590805" data-time="1466664130">
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The changes are very much about the RWC cycle that is a feature for all test nations I think. 
Look at Wales, they've only got 6 in their starting lineup for Saturday that also started in the QF loss to the Boks.
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That's not planned :)

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="590765" data-time="1466648949">
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That was a fucken embarrassing hand off he was on the end of. It's not like Davies is Lomu and Tamanivula is Merhts or O'Gara. Really poor.
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Davies is stronger than he looks. He's sat down quite a few big boys with his handoff.
 
Impeccable timing for this one.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="590765" data-time="1466648949">
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That was a fucken embarrassing hand off he was on the end of. It's not like Davies is Lomu and Tamanivula is Merhts or O'Gara. Really poor.
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I dropped this into the other thread, but here's Nonu getting bitch slapped into next week by international legend Tony Tuitavake, Davies is a wee bit better than Tony -

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590859" data-time="1466678641">
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I dropped this into the other thread, but here's Nonu getting bitch slapped into next week by international legend Tony Tuitavake, Davies is a wee bit better than Tony -

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You can't count that, Nonu never plays properly unless he has a black jersey on.

Billy Tell

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="590611" data-time="1466630786">
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Interested in how the midfield goes. I don't think there's a set rule that 12 has to be the broadsword and 13 the rapier ( I think we missed that in the Rugby clichÃ©s thread ). Sure Nonu and Smith did it brilliantly but Mortlock and Giteau, Bunce and Little, Little and Horan etc did it pretty well the other way round.
 
Is Dixon really cover for 7 ? he looks like a 6/8 and nothing else any day of the week to me.
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Giteau, Horan etc had a bit of 2nd playmaker about them.
 
Crotty doesn't. Witness his attempt at a crosskick last week.
 
He's an out-and-out centre for me, and I prefer him at outside rather than inside centre.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590859" data-time="1466678641">
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I dropped this into the other thread, but here's Nonu getting bitch slapped into next week by international legend Tony Tuitavake, Davies is a wee bit better than Tony -

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That was a nasty shot. Nonu was out before he hit the deck. That should have made Smashed em Bro!!

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="590861" data-time="1466679180">
Giteau, Horan etc had a bit of 2nd playmaker about them. 
Crotty doesn't. Witness his attempt at a crosskick last week. 
He's an out-and-out centre for me, and I prefer him at outside rather than inside centre.</blockquote>
 
I've stayed out of the crotty debate. To be honest I'm not his biggest fan either 
However, you can't use one miss kick against him. He had often turned out at first five for new Brighton and can definately play the role of a scone playmaker if needed. Generally kicks pretty well off both feet. 
I think he's the best option whilst ngatai is unavailable.

pooler fan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="590811" data-time="1466667744">Mike? Poolerfan? I see the whole coaching team has now been re-signed to the 2019 RWC and beyond. Happy or not with that? I'd have thought staleness might be a problem with a tenure of that length?</blockquote>
I think it's ridiculous personally, Wales have been looking stale for some time & quite how keeping the same coaches in situ will help that is beyond me.

Provincial Stalwart

There were some really interesting comments made by Hansen about the midfield in yesterday's media. I can't be bothered posting links, but there was a 4 minute video plus Pat McKendry's article on / in the Auckland Herald website and what I saw on TV3 sports news last night.
 
McKendry's article stated that SBW, if fit, would be available for the first RC match in Sydney on August 20 (the sevens final at Rio is on Aug 11). Hansen confirmed Fekitoa's injury meant he couldn't play and then talked up Moala's strengths and good work on training paddock. He then confirmed that "one of the group has to go" i.e. one of the current four midfielders would be axed when SBW returns, and so it appears clear that Moala is being considered for a spot in the top 4 midfielders (after being ranked 6th a short time ago). There was also a comment made earlier about "other guys in the sevens team" so maybe that is a bone for Rieko Ioane's future chances.
 
I've got no problem with any of this.
 
But then it got weird. Hansen confirmed that "Wise" (Naholo) was the midfield cover for this test and that was okay because he has played centre quite a bit previously, and then clarified that was in high school. Comments like this shit me a bit because it is a veeery long bow to draw to say that a guy who played centre in high school can suddenly cover centre from the bench in a test match from the bench. To my knowledge he has not played midfield at Super level, though maybe he has for the Naki at provincial or even for Wanganui. Naholo, at this stage in his career, is still developing his allround skills for the wing position which are different but surely lesser than that required to be a test match centre. Naholo's game other than his attack (specifically running with the ball in hand and his support play) is a bit shit, but suddenly he can play a more complicated position?
 
I'm sorry Hansen and Foster and Fox, but that requires a leap of faith for me. I know they deserve my faith because they fucking rule, but this is strange call. If the likes of Rene Ranger actually play there at SR level but don't [yet] get considered to be test match midfield candidates, or a guy like Francis Saili got no traction, then why would Naholo? Baffling. They're casting the net extremely wide here. It's way worse even than trying Cullen or Leon Macdonald at centre at a RWC. I can't see Naholo at centre in this game as being anything more than a one-off.
 
The other side of the "let's try Naholo" equation is the omission / non-consideration of Tamanivalu. ST was not mentioned in any of the video I saw talking about 3rd test selections. It seems very strange that with an injury / unavailability "crisis" involving three of our top 4 midfielders (SBW / Ngatai / Fekitoa) that ST would be discarded totally from the 23. There seemed no injury so it must be read as saying about him "we've looked at him and we've seen enough" to make up our mind about him at this stage. But is it "he's shit" or is it "he's good"?

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="590889" data-time="1466709172">
I've stayed out of the crotty debate. To be honest I'm not his biggest fan either 
However, you can't use one miss kick against him. He had often turned out at first five for new Brighton and can definately play the role of a scone playmaker if needed. Generally kicks pretty well off both feet. 
I think he's the best option whilst ngatai is unavailable.</blockquote> 
I have mixed feelings on crotty , while I tend to agree he is the closest thing we have to Conrad , one part of conrads game that gets overlooked was his silky hands and decision making with ball in hand, not sure we get the same from crotty . 
I'm happy enough for him to be there for now also, he is safe and reliable , but it's not hard to imagine him being swept aside for someone who plays with more authority in the near future.

taniwharugby

while he is very Conrad like, why is he playing 12? Is he the best option at 12 with what we currently have, and once SBW returns, and/or Ngatai is fit, he will move out to 13?

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="590861" data-time="1466679180">
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Giteau, Horan etc had a bit of 2nd playmaker about them.
 
Crotty doesn't. Witness his attempt at a crosskick last week.
 
He's an out-and-out centre for me, and I prefer him at outside rather than inside centre.
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The kick that led to the try? That was a fucking genius "kick pass". Wales were at 6s and 7s after he executed that.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="590897" data-time="1466715842">
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while he is very Conrad like, why is he playing 12? Is he the best option at 12 with what we currently have, and once SBW returns, and/or Ngatai is fit, he will move out to 13?
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I far prefer him at 13, he's a very dependable player both on attack and defense. We need someone that can straighten the attack at 12. Though it appears the AB selectors are moving away from that blue print.

pakman

Saw somewhere that Moala and Crotty will interchange. Herald or Stuff.
 
Moala can certainly straighten, but passing needs work. Much like a young Nonu.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Wales Test #3