Super Rugby 2023
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
The key point, seven outside the money, is American teams don't develop their own players. They pick them from college. So every franchise would drop their academy if there was a draft, why waste money on that?
This is really very similar to Ozzie boss trying to get a bigger slice of the NZR money pie, he's trying to get access to better players from over here
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@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
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The issue with super rugby is
-it's a 2nd level competition. With test rugby one level above it. Test rugby pays the biggest money. And earn the biggest TV fees
-Top level non test players (and top level test players too) can often earn more money overseas
-The best test players are not evenly split between teams. And in recent years this has become worse in NZ.
-Aust is much weaker than NZA draft is one idea that should be considered. Would a draft help to even up the players? And how many NZ players would need (or be allowed) to move to Aust. And would it just lead to more players heading overseas. How would it impact on test rugby etc
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@Kiwiwomble father / son rules? Is that kinda like how we bought down Stephen's son Connor GB down from wellington?
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2023:
he's trying to get access to better players from over here
Unfortunately this might be needed if Aust stay with 5 teams. Otherwise Aust team won't be able to compete.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Machpants i wont keep replying in defence because its not my idea or anything so dont actually have skin in the game
I assume it would be as simple as you can protect a certain number of your local talent, first dibs on a pro contract, and if you dont need someone "yet" but another team is willing to give them a full contract then why not...we might see some new talent come through. if a player wants to put themselves in a draft because they think they can get a gig someone else...then theyre not exactly committed to you are then and would be leaving anyway probably
in the AFL they also have "fun" things like "father/son" rules so you see family legacies develop
I can't believe that drafts will ever be looked at unless they want players to go to NRL or NH! It works in AFL etc because if you don't like where you drafted too, you got no comp overseas to bail out to. Imagine you a young kid coming out of school say in Qld and you get told, pack your bags and go to Dunedin, or even worse the opposite
. Would then NRL ,Japan etc start to look very attractive?
Is any of this relevant? According to Hamish McLennan aren't Aussies going it alone after next year? -
@Dan54 if we think our players would give up on their all blacks dream that easily then we have more problem then i though, as i say...players are literally going to dunedin right now looking for higher honors
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I think you're missing the point. A draft could potentially force players to play for a franchise they don't really want to play for, because they prefer playing for their home (or another) franchise. This could even be the case if the franchise that developed him (or that other franchise) does want to sign him. The Highlanders players you are referring to didn't go because they were forced to, although sometimes circumstances played a role, such as being overlooked by their home franchise or not getting enough game time.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 if we think our players would give up on their all blacks dream that easily then we have more problem then i though, as i say...players are literally going to dunedin right now looking for higher honors
I was taking the mick about Dunedin mate, but there will be plenty of players already going overseas at early age from both here and Aus. and going to league , and I suggesting a few may figure if I got to Japan and get some big buck for a few years and either play for them after 5 years anyway. And add to that a young fella in Aus being told he has to leave home wouldn't NRL seem a bit more attractive? It works both ways.
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@Dan54 There are only so many fully professional playing positions available (some leagues have overseas player quotas and limits) and not all is financially stable in a lot of clubs overseas (some relying on their owners to continually pump in heaps of cash - how long will that last?) recent examples being Wasps and Worcester to be in deep financial crap so it may not be as easy as player think of buggering off overseas envisage.
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@Higgins said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Dan54 There are only so many fully professional playing positions available (some leagues have overseas player quotas and limits) and not all is financially stable in a lot of clubs overseas (some relying on their owners to continually pump in heaps of cash - how long will that last?) recent examples being Wasps and Worcester to be in deep financial crap so it may not be as easy as player think of buggering off overseas envisage.
Yep understand that mate, though I not sure if Wasps and Worcester being in crap will change things much, just maybe bring the money for players down, the appetite for players is till their (they play an awful lot of games), and may just go for younger players that are not as expensive and will not be required for test duty? Japan is also a huge market too as well as France,Italy etc. While not saying everyone would run there , I suggesting it would be a sight more appealing with a draft in place where you are told where you must place. It's one of the problems where the sport is international, unlike AFL, NFL and even NBA the big money is in USA so they won't leave unless they not good enough.
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think you're missing the point. A draft could potentially force players to play for a franchise they don't really want to play for, because they prefer playing for their home (or another) franchise. This could even be the case if the franchise that developed him (or that other franchise) does want to sign him. The Highlanders players you are referring to didn't go because they were forced to, although sometimes circumstances played a role, such as being overlooked by their home franchise or not getting enough game time.
im not missing it, i addressed it, none of the drafts around the world im aware of force players to go somewhere they dont want too...it might be the only offer on the table and so the payer has to choose....a development contract at home or for start somewhere less desirable, if a players home union doesn't have a spot to offer then its not really an option is it
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@nzzp i have to admit im not sure how relevant that is, all NFL/NBL...hell, any america sports and any football players probably gets paid more than most rugby players, i dont see it as a money thing...theyre already going around the country, teams and agents are already doing deals, players are released early and given shots elsewhere...we're just talking about actually showing all that in the build up to a season to build some hype in a way other than jamming in 9's tournament that the best players didn't play in because they didn't want to get injured
The key point, seven outside the money, is American teams don't develop their own players. They pick them from college. So every franchise would drop their academy if there was a draft, why waste money on that?
This is really very similar to Ozzie boss trying to get a bigger slice of the NZR money pie, he's trying to get access to better players from over here
NFL / NBA is the wrong place to be looking when it comes implementing a draft - much better to be looking at the AFL where kids are drafted out of school or junior club footy that has no affiliation to the senior AFL club. As @Kiwiwomble said, there are some limitations, as well as the father-son rule, which promotes dynastic recruitment and could be something the Super Rugby franchises could do in due course. The AFL draft is not nearly as big a show as the NFL and NBA drafts, even in relative terms, but it does create some interest during the offseason, adding to the 24/7-365 environment, as well creating longer term interest among fans keen to see how their draft picks progress and kick on.
Other than the potential cost of it, I don't see any major downside of something that can only get more interest for Super Rugby, especially during the offseason.
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A breakthrough in the Super Rugby wars is on the horizon after New Zealand Rugby’s top brass met with their Australian counterparts at the Wallabies’ Rugby Championship match in Adelaide. Hours before the All Blacks suffered a humiliating loss to Argentina in Christchurch, the Herald can reveal that the NZR chief executive and two board members were at the Rugby Australia chairman’s lounge at Adelaide Oval. Sources close to both camps indicated the gathering was “positive” and “productive”, with a new long-term deal for Super Rugby likely within a couple of weeks. Crucially, New Zealand appears to have softened its stance towards Australia’s demand for an even split of broadcast revenue, signifying a victory for RA. New Zealand seemed likely to reject a 10-year deal, however, with the final agreement likely to be for a shorter period.New Super deal on brink after secret Adelaide meeting
An unusual trip across the ditch for New Zealand Rugby heavyweights was a signal an acrimonious negotiation over the future of Super Rugby could be at an end.
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The Warratahs have signed Taleni Seu from Japan -
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@Daffy-Jaffy Shame he decided to leave NZ rugby. The telling photo really says it all!
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Wasn't sure where to put this or if it is even interesting but the those flippin' Saders beat us again
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@Daffy-Jaffy Bloody hell, that's quite an unexpected graphic!
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@Daffy-Jaffy i didnt know they could read
Waratahs bolster lock depth for 2023
