Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Doesn't seem a merit-based decision to me.I don't know. If England comes up with a much larger offer then Razor could very well be lost. Contracts are easily broken these days. The time to secure him was now and they stuffed it up. Looks like player power won out in the end.
If Razor decides to go to England would be same as players going overseas, that is up to him. You don't give players a position in ABs to keep them in NZ or take on coaches (however much some of us want him) to keep him from going overseas.
Why has player power won, surely they have always been a huge part of any review,but not the only part?The players weren't talked to before this review, sorry conversation. So so the posts on player power are a bit out of whack
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Who were the realistic options to replace him?
A point I made earlier. Everyone seems to be assuming Robertson was overlooked at this time, but what if he was asked to replace Foster and declined? Hard to know without the facts.
As @Stargazer says, Robinson should be proactive and have the succession plan in place now.
Back to our scheduled vitriol towards NZR.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Well done NZR-how long before Scott Robertson is off overseas? I'm guessing an announcement by October.
Then fuck him. He knew years ago his next shot would be post '23.
I bet you wouldn't say that to his face you coward hiding behind a keyboard.
Hi Razors mum
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@Paekakboyz I think they made their bed a while ago and everything I’ve heard it’s been about buying time, riding it out and not really engaging with alternatives in any meaningful way.
It was really going to come down to whether Foster wanted to “spend more time with his family” or stay on.
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In hindsight, it does reveal how Steve Hansen must've been an extremely strong head coach in his own right to excel - even with some pretty mediocre assistants in Foster and McLeod as his only support staff between 2017-2019.
Hansen also had Mike Cron as scrum coach and Fox as a selector.
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I just hope there is good communication with razor in regards to a succession plan to 23 , as long as that is happening, I’m happy with the changes that have been made with the assistants .
Let’s get behind the team .
If Razor walks I’ll be pissed though .
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
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@Stargazer said in Foster:
So basically, we can only hope that Robertson takes over after the 2023 RWC, because it won't happen before then, regardsless of the results.
I'm pretty sure that plan has never changed. It has always been in the background that Razor takes over after Foster's contract. The only thing that has changed that it the run of results.
I very much doubt that Razor would want to come in now. He is a meticulous planner and doesn't strike me as a hired gun that will get the results overnight, especially if he doesn't get full say of management/assistants/squad etc.
Let's hope he hasn't been given other expectations. I think it is best for NZ, and for him, if he gets to take over in a clean way. -
Politics and Pragmatism
In retaining Foster and elevating Schmidt to a more strategic role, the NZR has made both a political arse-saving decision and a sensibly pragmatic one. Fundamentally, of course, this was always about fixing up a public relations mess of their own making.
And what a mess. Given the public uproar over the All Blacks’ performances, It seemed almost certain a week ago that Foster was gone for all money. And I have little doubt that Robinson was on hand in South Africa to accept his ‘resignation’ after the Ellis Park test.
But the ABs’ beating the Boks against all the odds in game II mucked up the plan, leaving Robinson to convene that bizarre media conference in Johannesburg at which he said nothing of substance, while conveying what most of us have known all along - that the real villains in this saga are the NZR board themselves - an indecisive, directionless and poorly organised rabble whose original appointment of Foster in the face of better alternatives was both a poor choice and one they have been scrambling to make up for every since.
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge. So they have spared themselves further embarrassment with this 14-month workaround.
That’s the politics. What about the pragmatism? Well, that’s the good part. There appear still to be enough adults in this over-crowded kitchen to stop the next 14 months being a complete disaster. Foster remains the titular head of the galley, though much of his original coaching hands have been turfed out of the kitchen and replaced with smarter rugby brains - Ryan and Schmidt - who should be able to bring together the available ingredients to as to serve up a more palatable outcome.
You would hope that now a firm decision has been made - well, at least the appearance of one - this will end the self-generated soap opera and get people focused back on the task at hand. That starts with the Pumas in Christchurch next week and then onto the Wallabies and the retention of the Bledisloe Cup.
As for Razor Robertson, he may feel a sense of relief, not having to be drafted in at the worst possible moment to fix a mess created by somebody else. This gives him clear air to take over the top job next year, should be still be interested. And it gives the players, who were clearly and rightfully sick of the whole charade, a sense of certainty and direction.
If the outcome is Foster being more consultative, more open to new ideas and less dogged in his selections and game plans, the changes will be an improvement. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?
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I would some respect Foster if he owned his original choice of assistants - that Impey & Robinson deemed 'superior' to Razor's.
But I simply cannot bear his self-serving ass, throws others under the bus to detract from his own performance responsibilities and then receives world-class assistants to paper over his glaring defecincies.
There are now 7 assistant coaches for Foster! (in either an advisory or full-time role) - Schmidt, Ryan, McLeod, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge, Hill,
What credit should he receive?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Doesn't seem a merit-based decision to me.I don't know. If England comes up with a much larger offer then Razor could very well be lost. Contracts are easily broken these days. The time to secure him was now and they stuffed it up. Looks like player power won out in the end.
If Razor decides to go to England would be same as players going overseas, that is up to him. You don't give players a position in ABs to keep them in NZ or take on coaches (however much some of us want him) to keep him from going overseas.
Why has player power won, surely they have always been a huge part of any review,but not the only part?Have we never capped a player to keep them?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
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@Stargazer said in Foster:
So basically, we can only hope that Robertson takes over after the 2023 RWC, because it won't happen before then, regardsless of the results.
I'm pretty sure that plan has never changed. It has always been in the background that Razor takes over after Foster's contract. The only thing that has changed that it the run of results.
I very much doubt that Razor would want to come in now. He is a meticulous planner and doesn't strike me as a hired gun that will get the results overnight, especially if he doesn't get full say of management/assistants/squad etc.
Let's hope he hasn't been given other expectations. I think it is best for NZ, and for him, if he gets to take over in a clean way.Yup. He needs to be locked in now. Contract extension with clause that let's him leave if he isn't given the ABs job in 2024
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I would some respect Foster if he owned his original choice of assistants - that Impey & Robinson deemed 'superior' to Razor's.
But I simply cannot bear his self-serving ass, throws others under the bus to detract from his own performance responsibilities and then receives world-class assistants to paper over his glaring defecincies.
There are now 7 assistant coaches for Foster! (in either an advisory or full-time role) - Schmidt, Ryan, McLeod, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge, Hill,
What credit should he receive?
Credit for successfully organising the zoom meetings?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
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No surprises that Foster has been retained.
I believe that Razor didn’t really want to take over during this mess created by Foster.No confidence we are going to see real progression just a Fozzie roller coaster ride of ups and downs.
I hope Foster doesn’t start by doing what he has done before and pull apart the team that won at Ellis park and we go backwards again.
Let’s give everyone a go BS pick you best 23 and grow them with game time. -
I would some respect Foster if he owned his original choice of assistants - that Impey & Robinson deemed 'superior' to Razor's.
But I simply cannot bear his self-serving ass, throws others under the bus to detract from his own performance responsibilities and then receives world-class assistants to paper over his glaring defecincies.
There are now 7 assistant coaches for Foster! (in either an advisory or full-time role) - Schmidt, Ryan, McLeod, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge, Hill,
What credit should he receive?
Has he ever not owned his first choice of assistants, he said he had made mistakes, he not going to say that Plumtree and Mooar by name FFS. That is totally unfair on them.
