Springboks v All Blacks I
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
In summary, then.... well there are a few things that stand out:
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Sam Cane is not up to it any more, so Matfield was right in questioning that during the week. Cane is still a fine super player, but the edge he had as a younger man appears to have dulled. I think perhaps there are other opensides in the team who are worth taking a punt on like Papali'i.
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Game plan is not a game plan without "plan" in it. A few people have been banging this drum for a while, and the chickens have come home to roost: the simple logic of "we're just better than you" combined with "we can win a game off your mistakes" meant the rare losses were written off with a bad day at the office, or a red card, but really the Emperor has no clothes at this point. All that talent and no idea how to point it in the same direction.
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NZRU Admin must be quietly shitting themselves as they sharpen the stilletos to plunge into Foster's back. They had their chance to eject him but decided to let him knife underlings. Very bad leadership from the back office. The clamours for Razor won't die down from this point, even should the ABs win next week. There are a few swords that could be fallen on in the board room.
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Steve Hansen is the luckiest fluffybunny ever to coach the ABs.
Agreed but which of our props did you think were not up to it?
I actually think your second row is the place to start. Whitelock is no spring chicken and Barrett always looked like a temporary measure for me. Retallick was just rediscovering some form, but besides that....
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None of my posts should be taken in any other context than "The Boks are a very good side with a fairly solid history together, so any loss against them should be part of the accounting".
Marx is a fucking weapon.
Malherbe is rock solid.
The second rowers are huge slices of beef who know their job well, despite looking like a mutant male model and the work experience kids who just wandered onto the pitch.Sure, Nyakane is a fairly useless lump who is just there to hold up a scrum and lift at lineouts, but when you've got Kolisi, PSDT and Wiesser in your back row you don't need much other mobility.
Can say their game won't set TV sets on fire all over the world, but they do it effectively enough that they could lose one of the world's best halfbacks a few minutes in, and still execute.
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@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
None of my posts should be taken in any other context than "The Boks are a very good side with a fairly solid history together, so any loss against them should be part of the accounting".
Marx is a fucking weapon.
He is. But christ, just settling in to watch a replay and the first of a number of turnovers look as dodgy as shit. Leaning on players to get hands on the ball, and AG just looks at it and thinks 'fair enough'.
Honestly, what really really shits me is not the decision, but the lack of questioning followed by immediately doing exactly that at every ruck. We look slow, and trying to be technically correct without actually winning the goddamn ball.
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@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
0:21 - can't believe green 14 wasn't done for taking out black 15. I suspect this will be a pattern based on subsequent comments here...
A number of sides do it - jump through the space, take out the man in the air, and have an arm up to play at the ball. If refs let you get away with it, good for them, but it really pisses me off.
Subsequent scrum: going nowhere. Why not call use it? Black 1 was under pressure from the get go but everything was stationary
Yeah, this was annoying. Our scrum wasn't strong though. I think second row has a bit to do with that.
Overall impression is a number of aging players in the tight 5 who don't have the physicality they used to bring. Whitelock, Retallick, Cane, Taylor (when picked) - and then the props have been pants around the field. It just leaves a pack that is being laughed at by opposition, rather than being intimidating. And mental battles are huge in elite sport.
Fark it's so annoying. We need to pick players with more dynamism and mongrel, but I dont' know who the hell they are. We are not throwing the players out of the systems like we used to - and have been spoiled
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@broughie generally 2 things to consider when you are teaching that situation to kids
1 player/s coming forward best placed to make the play for it
2 call for it and claim itAgain, seems like simple shit, but these guys are struggling with just that right now, either muddled messaging, or just completely lost with whatever they are trying to achieve and zero confidence in themselves.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
None of my posts should be taken in any other context than "The Boks are a very good side with a fairly solid history together, so any loss against them should be part of the accounting".
Marx is a fucking weapon.
He is. But christ, just settling in to watch a replay and the first of a number of turnovers look as dodgy as shit. Leaning on players to get hands on the ball, and AG just looks at it and thinks 'fair enough'.
I also thought a couple of them failed to show "strong body position" and "lifting the ball" which is what the refs are after.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
And in turn I will sing again from my stuck record
- this is where many Chiefs fans recoil in surprise... -
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
And in turn I will sing again from my stuck record
- this is where many Chiefs fans recoil in surprise...perhaps historic success meant RWC as an assistant coach (from 2012)?
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
And in turn I will sing again from my stuck record
- this is where many Chiefs fans recoil in surprise...perhaps historic success meant RWC as an assistant coach (from 2012)?
I'm sure it did, but history and Foster will always a longer time span for the average Chiefs fan.
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@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
And in turn I will sing again from my stuck record
- this is where many Chiefs fans recoil in surprise...perhaps historic success meant RWC as an assistant coach (from 2012)?
I'm sure it did, but history and Foster will always a longer time span for the average Chiefs fan.
Do you see any evolution from Foster as coach of chiefs to Foster as AB coach?
It just occurred to me that perhaps the backline performance was so bad due to the coaching change but then I thought surely going from assistant coach to head coach over so many years with basically the same players should be smooth as..
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@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@His-Bobness said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It's really not rocket science. New Zealand Rugby made a catastrophic error in appointing Foster. He may be a nice chap, but he is not an innovator and does not have the imagination to take the game forward. As countless others have pointed out, he's like a hack chef who inherited a five-star restaurant and never changed the menu.
Goddamn brilliant analogy.
I'll die in my ditch alone on this, but I can understand the initial Foster appointment because of the historic success. It's the reappointment last year that I was absolutely dirty on.
And in turn I will sing again from my stuck record
- this is where many Chiefs fans recoil in surprise...oh I know. I don't agree with it, but (as they say in the courts), it's arguable and defensible.
So, as one of the early members of 'Foster must go' this pains me, but Hansen and Smith had him in their enviroment for years. You don't do that if you don't have a good rugby brain ... but head coaching seems (yet again) a gig too far. He wasn't there just for supplying cream buns
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Do you see any evolution from Foster as coach of chiefs to Foster as AB coach?
Not significantly. Top of mind, similarities of a Foster coached side in the long-run have been:
- Arguably conservative selections.
- Teams that play much better than expected (the second 20 minutes v Ireland I)
- And also that play much worse than expected (game III v Ireland, the Argentina loss, Chiefs sides that used to win one out of the first five games before rallying to finish mid-table. Or the must-win run to the 2009 finals then followed by the 2009 Final itself, etc).
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@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
56:49 black 13 transfers pressure rather than going into touch. Silly.
72:23 Grass cutter / cannonball tackle from Green 16. One hand on the ground, one "wrapping". Should have been penalised. Not the first one from green players either, I might add. A midfield bomb from black just outside their 22. What?
On these two points, I don't think I ever saw a replay but it looked like Rieko was held back before he gathered the ball and ended up throwing that pass back inside. If he wasn't held back he would have been away down the left hand touchline.
And on the midfield bomb. That's the kind of shit that rams home the problem with our 10s is coaching. Everyone goes on about Mo'unga's superior kicking, but what the hell was he thinking there? We see the same shit from Beauden, it's clearly a planned move and it's a terrible one at that.
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
56:49 black 13 transfers pressure rather than going into touch. Silly.
72:23 Grass cutter / cannonball tackle from Green 16. One hand on the ground, one "wrapping". Should have been penalised. Not the first one from green players either, I might add. A midfield bomb from black just outside their 22. What?
On these two points, I don't think I ever saw a replay but it looked like Rieko was held back before he gathered the ball and ended up throwing that pass back inside. If he wasn't held back he would have been away down the left hand touchline.
his speed is freakish. The early BB break in Q1, he comes from nowhere to get into position and then targetted by Green 15 or 13 with a big hit well off the ball. Sides are teaming up on him because of the threat he poses.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Kruse said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
You almost think they'd do better if they said "Fuck it, let's just go out there and have some fun - we might not win, but at least we'd be enjoying ourselves a bit"
B.Barrett in particular - whenever he has a blinder, it looks like he's just having a bit of a laugh with his mates and a rugby ball.
I don't know in which direction the Cause-Effect relationship is... but I've thought for a while that yeah... "give some basic strategy, but don't overfill their stupid little rugby-player heads - then pat them on the arse and let them go out on the field and have some fun" might be a decent coaching approach for some (not necessarily all) players.We hear they are a pretty together bunch off the field, but there seems a lot of tension and stress in the team on the field which is translating to their play. I noted Ardie being given a talking to by the Ref for back-chat - can't remember the last time I say that with a snr AB.
It's like riding the Honda on a gravel road. If you concentrate on not falling off you tense up, you will.
Didn’t that happen in the context of the BB hit and I think Ardie was pointing out that it went unpunished earlier in the game. Don’t mind that in that situation given how reckless and dangerous it was.
We’ve been marched 10 in the past for back chat - Coles, TJP come to mind.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the exchange was about how Ardie spoke to the Ref. Take your point on TJP & Coles, but I was surprised to hear it from someone who has captained the team.
EDIT: On the plus side, Ardie & Gardner sorted it out a few minutes later with a pat on each other's back. We might worry about the overall state of the game, but that was good to see.
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@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
None of my posts should be taken in any other context than "The Boks are a very good side with a fairly solid history together, so any loss against them should be part of the accounting".
Marx is a fucking weapon.
He is. But christ, just settling in to watch a replay and the first of a number of turnovers look as dodgy as shit. Leaning on players to get hands on the ball, and AG just looks at it and thinks 'fair enough'.
I also thought a couple of them failed to show "strong body position" and "lifting the ball" which is what the refs are after.
Marx has this tell when he’s not supporting weight and starts to tip. It’s quite subtle, in that he keeps his legs straight, but he throws himself backwards whilst snatching a bit forward with his arms. Once you’ve seen it once you realise it’s a tactic. But retains ‘strong body position’ so refs don’t seem to connect that it means he wasn’t supporting his body weight.
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@Bones a lot of things are obvious as fuck unless you're Angus.
