Foster, Robertson etc
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Nope, I think you are struggling. Nobody else said another coach was a magic solution. You are arguing with pixel dust.
Fair play to @Victor-Meldrew, there are some who talk about Robertson as the single handed saviour of the ABs, hence the Jesus Chrobertson joke. He's clearly the best available option now, but the issues run deeper than just the coach.
NZR (poorly governed, as always), drove away Rennie and Joseph (as two prime examples) at the end of 2015. Robertson was last man standing. Ideally he'd go and get some international experience overseas before coming back. However, we missed that chance.
The risk is that Robertson's skillset doesn't transfer to the top level. I think he'll be miles better than Foster, but @Victor-Meldrew keeps pointing out - what if he isn't. Super and Test are different games, and more importantly, the prep and challenge is fundamentally different. Super you get players for extended periods, based together, and a clear squad start to finish. Tests you get far more fragmentation with schedules and people, and it's melding different people with different playing styles together.
In my benevolent dictatorship, NZR appointed Robertson last year and we see what he's got. But it ain't happening.
Not sure if you could say Joseph and Rennie were driven away. We have only one top job and they both wanted to be a head coach at test level. You aren't going to change that situation and we know from Hart/Grizz that two head coaches doesn't work.
Can't keep everyone. -
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
We have only one top job and they both wanted to be a head coach at test level.
Everyone who's up and coming wants to slot right in at Head Coach - rather than do the hard yards as Assistant coach where they can get experience and develop at Test level. Whatever the cause is, it's something NZR needs to look at and get its coaching development & succession planning right.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Nope, I think you are struggling. Nobody else said another coach was a magic solution. You are arguing with pixel dust.
Fair play to @Victor-Meldrew, there are some who talk about Robertson as the single handed saviour of the ABs, hence the Jesus Chrobertson joke. He's clearly the best available option now, but the issues run deeper than just the coach.
NZR (poorly governed, as always), drove away Rennie and Joseph (as two prime examples) at the end of 2015. Robertson was last man standing. Ideally he'd go and get some international experience overseas before coming back. However, we missed that chance.
The risk is that Robertson's skillset doesn't transfer to the top level. I think he'll be miles better than Foster, but @Victor-Meldrew keeps pointing out - what if he isn't. Super and Test are different games, and more importantly, the prep and challenge is fundamentally different. Super you get players for extended periods, based together, and a clear squad start to finish. Tests you get far more fragmentation with schedules and people, and it's melding different people with different playing styles together.
In my benevolent dictatorship, NZR appointed Robertson last year and we see what he's got. But it ain't happening.
Not sure if you could say Joseph and Rennie were driven away. We have only one top job and they both wanted to be a head coach at test level. You aren't going to change that situation and we know from Hart/Grizz that two head coaches doesn't work.
Can't keep everyone.They didn't apply. I think it was because of NZR's timing (latest job to go), and the presumption that Foster was the incumbent (his to lose). You can frame that however you like, but the fact we only got two applications for coaching the most successful rugby team of all time is telling.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
We have only one top job and they both wanted to be a head coach at test level.
Everyone who's up and coming wants to slot right in at Head Coach - rather than do the hard yards as Assistant coach where they can get experience and develop at Test level. Whatever the cause is, it's something NZR needs to look at and get its coaching development & succession planning right.
Even with that (and so many arguments here about succession from within not being the way to go) you have a few assistants that are all gunning to succeed and then moving on as soon as they don't.
Just like players, the timing is often out and it is better for your career and family to go elsewhere. -
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Nope, I think you are struggling. Nobody else said another coach was a magic solution. You are arguing with pixel dust.
Fair play to @Victor-Meldrew, there are some who talk about Robertson as the single handed saviour of the ABs, hence the Jesus Chrobertson joke. He's clearly the best available option now, but the issues run deeper than just the coach.
NZR (poorly governed, as always), drove away Rennie and Joseph (as two prime examples) at the end of 2015. Robertson was last man standing. Ideally he'd go and get some international experience overseas before coming back. However, we missed that chance.
The risk is that Robertson's skillset doesn't transfer to the top level. I think he'll be miles better than Foster, but @Victor-Meldrew keeps pointing out - what if he isn't. Super and Test are different games, and more importantly, the prep and challenge is fundamentally different. Super you get players for extended periods, based together, and a clear squad start to finish. Tests you get far more fragmentation with schedules and people, and it's melding different people with different playing styles together.
In my benevolent dictatorship, NZR appointed Robertson last year and we see what he's got. But it ain't happening.
Good post mate, agree completely, and as you say having only 2 applications for the top job is not a good outcome whatever the reasons so NZR need to look closely at that.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
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@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
That is exactly what the sauce is saying will happen. Let's hope so.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
That is exactly what the sauce is saying will happen. Let's hope so.
I'd say Joe as a caretaker to finish of the RC then Robertson to take EOYT so he can have players in camp and test a few out prior to next year.
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@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
100%. But it would require some joined-up thinking which seems to be in short supply with NZR.
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
Fair point. But it would be comforting to think NZR have thought about making it happen.
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@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Foster's succession was unjustified. We didn't have the 2019 RWC win to springboard him in, it was essentially a closed race as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
That is exactly what the sauce is saying will happen. Let's hope so.
Who's your sauce? chchrugbyfan?
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
We have also pushed a lot of good coaches offshore due to the "requirement" for the AB head coach to have had overseas coaching experience.
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
Do you reckon there were a few hedging their bets after 2015 thinking even with the RWC win that Hansen would step down given he had been in the ABs for 12 seasons?
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@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
Why would they apply in future if there's already succession planning?
The whole application process seems somewhat archaic and unnecessary given what all other nations are doing with their coaches, which is simply identifying someone they like and making an offer. It seems to me we will have to do something similar henceforth to avoid another Fozzie situation arising, or at the very least change the application process entirely.
