Foster, Robertson etc
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@pakman said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
When you unpick the "Foster must go" argument and ask how many Tests you'd give a Foster-replacement to improve things (like the win percentage) before he too gets sacked, things get a bit more vague and/or complicated for some reason. Really can't think why if the quality of the coach is a key problem.
You asked this on the other thread, and it's a great challenge.
The consensus was it's not just the losing, but the way we're losing. We seem miles behind other nations, particularly England France Ireland in our attacking and defensive patterns. Our players no longer seem to be better than the opposition at the core skills and vision.
So, a better record, and/or visible improvements in the way we play.
If Foster had the team playing well and we lost to a better side, most folk would accept that as steps on the journey. Right now we're seeing players seem to get worse in the AB environment; muddled thinking, poor skills, woeful kicking, lack of clarity of action and gameplan, and slow speed of thought.
Joe Rocks, translated from French interview
Moreover, the attack game is not varied enough and faced with these increasingly better-organised defences, these movements, which worked until now, no longer work
There's not any innovation, that's totally on the coach. We lose cos the team is based on X factor and individual brilliance, and is not enough. We actually need to work for victory. The excellent Nick Bishop has any analysis on Rugby Pass about the midfield, and the crap we see now. Let's play a fullback and a wing in the midfield, cos X factor, yeah that'll work. And that's just one area of muddled X factor thinking of many.
Until foster is gone, the ABs are in a tactics free fall.
For the last six years, New Zealand have increasingly reached towards ‘X-factor’, rather than players steeped in the technical and physical demands of play at numbers 10, 12 and 13
Interesting that he is one of the few press that agree with the majority opinion here, is not just foster, but late Hansen as well
In fairness a good number of people on this forum wanted rieko at 13. We don’t have a lot of other options TBH with the injuries to ALB and JG. I’m going to wait & see how the next 2 tests go.
I wanted Jack for the must win third, but injuries got in the way. Rieko is deadly on the wing, so why not play him there?
because, like it or not, he's been a centre for 2 years, and is the best centre in the Country. That's why.
And i am not sure why this is the stick used to bash the team by so many (holy shit other areas of social media are awash with this). Our forwards are getting munted. Our 10 is playing like shit. As is our so-called linking 15, but everything will be fixed if we move RI back to 11 (where we have a plethora of options).
I am as bad as any. But AB losses really are just an excuse for us to bang out our preconceived ideas and prejudices.
I don't think Ian Foster is doing a good job as the head coach. But, i also believe our player development in NZ has stalled over the past few years. Maybe not helped by spending all the time playing ourselves, or the Aussies who have their own issues. The best players in the country are in the squad. But some of them are not good enough.
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@pakman said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
When you unpick the "Foster must go" argument and ask how many Tests you'd give a Foster-replacement to improve things (like the win percentage) before he too gets sacked, things get a bit more vague and/or complicated for some reason. Really can't think why if the quality of the coach is a key problem.
You asked this on the other thread, and it's a great challenge.
The consensus was it's not just the losing, but the way we're losing. We seem miles behind other nations, particularly England France Ireland in our attacking and defensive patterns. Our players no longer seem to be better than the opposition at the core skills and vision.
So, a better record, and/or visible improvements in the way we play.
If Foster had the team playing well and we lost to a better side, most folk would accept that as steps on the journey. Right now we're seeing players seem to get worse in the AB environment; muddled thinking, poor skills, woeful kicking, lack of clarity of action and gameplan, and slow speed of thought.
Joe Rocks, translated from French interview
Moreover, the attack game is not varied enough and faced with these increasingly better-organised defences, these movements, which worked until now, no longer work
There's not any innovation, that's totally on the coach. We lose cos the team is based on X factor and individual brilliance, and is not enough. We actually need to work for victory. The excellent Nick Bishop has any analysis on Rugby Pass about the midfield, and the crap we see now. Let's play a fullback and a wing in the midfield, cos X factor, yeah that'll work. And that's just one area of muddled X factor thinking of many.
Until foster is gone, the ABs are in a tactics free fall.
For the last six years, New Zealand have increasingly reached towards ‘X-factor’, rather than players steeped in the technical and physical demands of play at numbers 10, 12 and 13
Interesting that he is one of the few press that agree with the majority opinion here, is not just foster, but late Hansen as well
In fairness a good number of people on this forum wanted rieko at 13. We don’t have a lot of other options TBH with the injuries to ALB and JG. I’m going to wait & see how the next 2 tests go.
I wanted Jack for the must win third, but injuries got in the way. Rieko is deadly on the wing, so why not play him there?
because, like it or not, he's been a centre for 2 years, and is the best centre in the Country. That's why.
And i am not sure why this is the stick used to bash the team by so many (holy shit other areas of social media are awash with this). Our forwards are getting munted. Our 10 is playing like shit. As is our so-called linking 15, but everything will be fixed if we move RI back to 11 (where we have a plethora of options).
I am as bad as any. But AB losses really are just an excuse for us to bang out our preconceived ideas and prejudices.
I don't think Ian Foster is doing a good job as the head coach. But, i also believe our player development in NZ has stalled over the past few years. Maybe not helped by spending all the time playing ourselves, or the Aussies who have their own issues. The best players in the country are in the squad. But some of them are not good enough.
Well put. On current form Jordie is part of the problem. I would hope that it is not because he has a chip about being kept at 15. Jordan would be better in a Ben Smith type role but I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
Attck is frustrating at the moment but is also hard to judge without front foot ball.
By far our bigger concern is stopping teams stringing together multiple quick phases. That's what really kills us. -
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
By far our bigger concern is stopping teams stringing together multiple quick phases. That's what really kills us.
so our defence...which isnt putting any pressure on opposition, forcing errors, creating turnovers and/or counter attack opportunities.
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@Steve said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If I can give my tuppence worth, I think Rieko breaks Howletts record if we leave him on the wing.
Otherwise I fear he is going to fade in obscurity as other "real" centres emerge.
It's not a case of leaving him there, it's putting him back.
We are badly missing ALB. If he was there we could have a back four of ALB, DMac, Rieko and Jordan.
DMac's (small) record in black on the wing is very good and having a wing with a roaming licence to pop up at first receiver is a very underused tactic.
For those concerned about high balls, I would say that the opposition would have to be very careful kicking to that back three with all of them very capable of counter-attack as a group and/or individually and all three capable of finding the weakspot in the chase. -
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I don't think Ian Foster is doing a good job as the head coach. But, i also believe our player development in NZ has stalled over the past few years. Maybe not helped by spending all the time playing ourselves, or the Aussies who have their own issues. The best players in the country are in the squad. But some of them are not good enough.
Other than Samisoni who are the tight forwards who have come through in the last 5 years for the ABs?
Other than Samisoni those that have come through don't exactly scream 'future world xv contender'. They are placeholders.
and ST doesn't get nearly enough game time.
That's the big issue.
I'm more hopeful for the next 5 years looking at the pipeline but there's going to continue to be a suffering in between.
It will be interesting to see if Jason Ryan can help some of these guys lift their performances in the meantime.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
But if Foster's the problem, then what do you do when the solution you put in place doesn't work?
Foster is a problem and Razor would be a better coach. I am not sure why you are doubting this. That isn't to say there aren't other problems, it is just he is the mostly easily identifiable one.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
When you unpick the "Foster must go" argument and ask how many Tests you'd give a Foster-replacement to improve things (like the win percentage) before he too gets sacked, things get a bit more vague and/or complicated for some reason. Really can't think why if the quality of the coach is a key problem.
Fair enough. But ceteris paribus, we gotta go with the best coach we can find first to see if that has a major influence. As for testing that coach, we would want to see an improvement in coherency, playing style, and yes results.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Well put. On current form Jordie is part of the problem. I would hope that it is not because he has a chip about being kept at 15.
I doubt it re chip. But there are other issues before Jordie. Including his brother at 1st. But Jordie doesn't perform like a champion week after week. Even at super rugby level. Although he mostly was last year but not this year.
Foster is hanging on but is likely the main issue now.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
LOL, lets get back to the dual playmaker system. That's worked a treat in the past. With DMac on different pictures will certainly be painted. Lovely images of sideways strokes across the canvas.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
LOL, lets get back to the dual playmaker system. That's worked a treat in the past. With DMac on different pictures will certainly be painted. Lovely images of sideways strokes across the canvas.
right now i would take someone willing to take them on and create some fucking chaos rather than wide passes hoping to find some sort of mismatch.
DMac's best time in Black was that northern tour where he gave the defense kittens with his quick feet.
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
LOL, lets get back to the dual playmaker system. That's worked a treat in the past. With DMac on different pictures will certainly be painted. Lovely images of sideways strokes across the canvas.
right now i would take someone willing to take them on and create some fucking chaos rather than wide passes hoping to find some sort of mismatch.
DMac's best time in Black was that northern tour where he gave the defense kittens with his quick feet.
DMac was great at 1st in the Chiefs Crusaders match (that the Chiefs won?). Hope he starts there this year to give another 1st option
Shame that Perofeta is stuck behind Barrett at the Blues. If he was say at the Canes there would be 4 options rather than just 2 this year
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@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
LOL, lets get back to the dual playmaker system. That's worked a treat in the past. With DMac on different pictures will certainly be painted. Lovely images of sideways strokes across the canvas.
right now i would take someone willing to take them on and create some fucking chaos rather than wide passes hoping to find some sort of mismatch.
DMac's best time in Black was that northern tour where he gave the defense kittens with his quick feet.
DMac was great at 1st in the Chiefs Crusaders match (that the Chiefs won?). Hope he starts there this year to give another 1st option
Shame that Perofeta is stuck behind Barrett at the Blues. If he was say at the Canes there would be 4 options rather than just 2 this year
From an AB perspective BB at the Blues is becoming a slight pain in the arse. He is pushing Perofeta to 15 which limits Sullivan's game time. In saying that, if BB didn't go to the Blues we may not have seen the improvement we saw in Perofeta this year.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I wonder if our attack would function better with multiple threats at first and second receiver and we need to go back to having two of BB/RM/DMac on for a period of the game to paint different pictures to the defending side and move the point of attack around.
LOL, lets get back to the dual playmaker system. That's worked a treat in the past. With DMac on different pictures will certainly be painted. Lovely images of sideways strokes across the canvas.
Well here's a picture to hang on the wall
2018 vs France, Eden Park. Halftime - New Zealand 8, France 11, Fulltime - New Zealand 52, France 11
DMac on at 60 replacing JB with Ben from accounts moving back to fullback. Scored one, Created one and Ioane scored another to blow out the score.A really good example of what I like about the option is here
At 2:55 DMac and RM have just worked together on a long run to take the ball hot on attack then work together beautifully as playmakers to put Goodhue through a gap. Having a wing that can act as a distributor can be a powerful weapon.
When Rieko, Bender and Dmac were together working with either BB or RM it was as good as you got at times. Swap out Bender for Jordan and it could be the stuff.
Dual playmaker did work well, Really well. Just not with BB/RM who don't seem to gel.
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Perofeta was playing well at 1st the year Barrett first arrived. He was kept at first and Barrett was played at FB
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@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Perofeta was playing well at 1st the year Barrett first arrived. He was kept at first and Barrett was played at FB
Otere Black was playing 10 that year after Beaudie arrived (2020 Super Rugby Aotearoa after the first Covid lockdown) not Perofeta.
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I’ll pit in here, but I didn’t know about this player forced review
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Perofeta was playing well at 1st the year Barrett first arrived. He was kept at first and Barrett was played at FB
Otere Black was playing 10 that year after Beaudie arrived (2020 Super Rugby Aotearoa after the first Covid lockdown) not Perofeta.
Ops. And thanks for the correction. I was in Thailand (couldn't get back) then and didn't follow rugby that closely
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When you don't have any discernible game plan or pattern of defense, it is nigh on impossible for the players like RI to play without the blunders they are making.
Put Havili into the Crusaders pattern and he goes great guns, put RI into the Blues patterns and he is the stand-out center in SR by a country mile. Ireland loses a player and the next cab off the rank steps in without a misstep. Remember the rotation policy of the Henry era?
The ABs are an organizational mess at the moment. The players don't know if they are Arthur or Martha. -
Every man and their dog climbing in the NZR Management now...
The things he doesn't mention but thar earlier story does is that it seems there is a big review already underway/done as part of the Silverlake due diligence. I have to wonder if that is playing a major role here. The management is maybe too aware of rocking boats until the cheque is signed. It's a poor strategy though and is having the opposite effect.
