Springboks v All Blacks I
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nostrildamus the Irish is our URC rivals and 80% Leinster. The Bulls beat them at home in the semi final and the Stormers knocked out Ulster. RasNaber coached Munster. To beat them you need to dominate their packs (lineout/scrum). No rocket science really.
Well we only had scrum ascendency test 1 and our lineout went to custard.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
I may be confused as to whether this happened in the Hansen or Foster era but we tried one test with an obvious plan to tackle the big boks low and bring them straight to ground.
I would be stoked if World Rugby actually incentivised this. Right now the risk is offloads, particularly off the ground. Professionalism has changed the mindset from 'take their legs out' to 'physically dominate the upper body and wrap to prevent offloads'. Done well, a low tackle is a thing of beauty.
If we see innovation in attack and defence we will be delighted, right?
They don't need to / already are
If it's successful, then more teams will start doing it
Tackling anywhere near the chest and getting it wrong is almost certainly a penalty, often a YC, sometimes a RC
The smart teams will work this out
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@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
I may be confused as to whether this happened in the Hansen or Foster era but we tried one test with an obvious plan to tackle the big boks low and bring them straight to ground.
I would be stoked if World Rugby actually incentivised this. Right now the risk is offloads, particularly off the ground. Professionalism has changed the mindset from 'take their legs out' to 'physically dominate the upper body and wrap to prevent offloads'. Done well, a low tackle is a thing of beauty.
If we see innovation in attack and defence we will be delighted, right?
They don't need to / already are
If it's successful, then more teams will start doing it
Tackling anywhere near the chest and getting it wrong is almost certainly a penalty, often a YC, sometimes a RC
The smart teams will work this out
Thing is, that tackling high is usually an advantage for the defending side, and rarely penalised. You see so many people tackling to the chest, and very few penalties/cards given. So right now I don't think it is incentivised.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
All blacks are $2 head to head at the Tab😲
... but the Bokke are $1.87. Easy money?
I would love to see a graph of what the AB's have been paying from the TAB, have we ever been over $2?
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We have enough talent to put SA away, without a doubt. I've made it pretty clear on here that I don't particularly rate Foster, but I'm really hoping the changes to the coaching group can bring enough fresh ideas into the camp that things start clicking for this team. We're not that far away, we are just trying to do too much in the first half and putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Really looking forward to these 2 matches.
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We have enough talent to put SA away, without a doubt. I've made it pretty clear on here that I don't particularly rate Foster, but I'm really hoping the changes to the coaching group can bring enough fresh ideas into the camp that things start clicking for this team. We're not that far away, we are just trying to do too much in the first half and putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Really looking forward to these 2 matches.
Anything resembling a back line move off first phase would be welcome.
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@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We have enough talent to put SA away, without a doubt. I've made it pretty clear on here that I don't particularly rate Foster, but I'm really hoping the changes to the coaching group can bring enough fresh ideas into the camp that things start clicking for this team. We're not that far away, we are just trying to do too much in the first half and putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Really looking forward to these 2 matches.
Anything resembling a back line move off first phase would be welcome.
Like this one?
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This post is deleted!
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@Frank said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I don't think we need to be too much doom and gloom - the Boks have their own problems.
What are those problems?
Wales showed if you stop their maul they're pretty toothless.
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We have enough talent to put SA away, without a doubt. I've made it pretty clear on here that I don't particularly rate Foster, but I'm really hoping the changes to the coaching group can bring enough fresh ideas into the camp that things start clicking for this team. We're not that far away, we are just trying to do too much in the first half and putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Really looking forward to these 2 matches.
Anything resembling a back line move off first phase would be welcome.
Like this one?
Ioane at 11 and savea at 7. I like it.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Frank said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I don't think we need to be too much doom and gloom - the Boks have their own problems.
What are those problems?
Wales showed if you stop their maul they're pretty toothless.
Wales showed that you need to make your tackles as well against SA to stop them from getting momentum, and more importantly, forcing them to play for more phases than they want to. The Welsh defence doesn't soak as much as the All Blacks D though, so this will be an interesting part of the 2 tests.
ABs must keep their penalty count low. Giving the Boks an exit from their territory (Wales put plenty of pressure on the Boks in their territory) or a chance to kick deep into AB territory for lineout/maul is inviting problems.
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@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
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Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
It's more the aims and shape of the whole pack that is more important than set-piece in a short period IMO. My suspicion is that the forwards as a complete group have not been having their roles well explained. The loose forwards in particular seem to be playing very vaguely without organised impact and the FR/Locks/Loose are all acting under separate instructions. An example would be that BBBR was obviously tasked with the (old hat) midfield forward carrier role but there was often no immediate ruck clearer or phase plan after that carry. It looked to be 'once near the tackle, once in the midfield then play what's in front of you with options everywhere'. Whoever is closest does the job.
I think Ryan may bring a few more phases in or at least simplify who is expected where and when.That's probably true, but although I'm an ex back, my take is that cohesiveness is vital at maul time. It's definitely a skill where the various tighties need to play their role in a coordinated fashion.
Most NZ Super sides aren't great at it.
Under Ryan, Saders haven't conceded a maul try in five years, of which two were when NZ Super teams were still playing SA ones.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman He is now coaching the ABs. Not Canterbury. He needs to leave his bias at the door and work with the best in the country first (I know debatable). And as Kirwan says Taylor should not be starting anyway.
Remember the Chiefs forwards did pretty well against the Crusaders except for lapses in composure. The ABs would not be served well by a Canterbury starting tight five. It’s a step up from Super Rugby.
The entire Chiefs tight five is available!
Your point is?
To the extent the Chiefs tighties were considered superior, Ryan has all of them available to him.
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@TheMojoman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
At the risk of upsetting the approved Fern narrative, I'll be very surprised if ABs don't win at least one of Bok tests.
They won't be able to emulate Irish structures, and we know how to play them.
IMO the best the AB’s can hope for is to split the series. I can’t see them winning both against Boks at home. The Boks have a settled squad barring Kolbe’s injury and playing at home. It’s all in their favour plus their rush defence & ultra physicality troubled the AB’s in both tests last year.
The ABs have an eight year streak to defend.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Straw man team.
Ross/Sami T/Ofa/Scooter/Big Sam/Vaa'i/Cane/Sotutu/Nugget/BB/Havili/Goodhue/Rieko/Jordan/Jordie.
Bench:
Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Ardie/Akira/Christie/Mo'unga/Reece
Frizzle will be at 6. That’s the whole point of his selection. They have set themselves on wanting a player like that hence the earlier selection of SB there.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Under Ryan, Saders haven't conceded a maul try in five years, of which two were when NZ Super teams were still playing SA ones.
Is that still true? I thought the Blues nabbed one this year down in CHC.
Coventry showed with the Blues that you can improve maul defence significnatly. Crusaders pack have been the benchmark for technique and cohesiveness in that area for years though. I still shudder at the paper thin Blues defence of a few years ago
You know the Bokke will throw mauls at you. Going to be a big tussle if we are switched on, and a bloodbath if we're not.
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
We have enough talent to put SA away, without a doubt. I've made it pretty clear on here that I don't particularly rate Foster, but I'm really hoping the changes to the coaching group can bring enough fresh ideas into the camp that things start clicking for this team. We're not that far away, we are just trying to do too much in the first half and putting ourselves under too much pressure.
Really looking forward to these 2 matches.
I would like to think we have the ability to win, but I think this Bok team are pretty good. Not sure if we forget how hard we have found it to win in SA over history. I would be content with a drawn series, bloody happy with a winning both tests, but really want to see the changes in coaching staff hopefully freshen up things a bit to start with.
