All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
It's funny how Grace has become the flavour of the month based on his performance in the final and for the Maori. Up to that point not many people on here were saying he should be in the squad.
I like him, but he still has a lot to learn. I think he's caught between a 6 and an 8 at the moment.
Remember how Luke Jacobsen after zero big games was the next Richie McCaw on here pre-WC?
Grace had a big first year, a mediocre 2nd year, and showed up in the big games this year. He's a decent size and uses it, and plays for a winning team - which is enough to have him in the conversation for 8s in NZ. That's an understandable reaction when we are picking lightweight trios and losing. But then we're also occasionally doing the exact opposite and throwing a lock on the blindside - which clearly shows the coaches know what direction we want to go in, doesn't it?
I like MMT - he should be getting a bit more attention I reckon. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The journos have it all wrong anyway. Ardie is the new captain. You heard it on the fern first.
I have a sauce.If correct, I will definitely throw all my toys out of the cot.
As I have said elsewhere, if Ardie is the answer to the leadership question, then the question is wrong. He is the perfect example of all that is wrong with this team at the moment - an individually brilliant player who plays like an individual and not to any apparent plan that he or his team mates are able to follows. This is not meant to be a slight on him, but more a reflection of the fact that this team needs a leader who is both (a) the best in his position (hence, not Cane and probably not Ardie either), and (b) able to get the team playing to the plan (whatever it may be). Everything brilliant that Ardie does is based on instinctive induvial moments of play - he simply cannot be the guy to lead the team in implementing any kind of plan.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The last part yeah but Hoskins has had 10 appearances for the ABs (maybe he came off the bench once or twice)
Sotutu has had 5 starts and 5 bench appearances.
His last 2 starts against the might of USA and Italy.....
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@KiwiMurph right ok that isn't a high degree of confidence from the coaches.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
That’s hyper-bowl!
I like Sotutu, but if Papalii is still finding his feet, Hoskins is even more so. He’s played less tests than Papalii and started half as many. Still a long long ways to go.
I think we are kidding ourselves if we don’t accept that Ardie is an 80 minute player under this regime. To his credit he does have a big motor, but he’s got to be more consistent. Would it be different under another coach? Who knows.
The trio in recent times that I think has looked pretty balanced and played okay, was the one against the Boks up in Qld - Ioane, Blackadder, Savea. A few rough edges but a high workrate. We had Sotutu off the bench too.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph right ok that isn't a high degree of confidence from the coaches.
Same coaches that won't start Samisoni.
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Grace and Sotutu are No.8s and whichever starts will add to the loose trio.
The thing about Grace is that he is the go to guy to take up the ball after a kick, defend the tramlines near the ruck (he has a big shoulder, similar to Jacobson), is a lineout specialist, and reads the game well in support. His play screams test footy.
Sotutu is similar but a bit more dynamic in attack. Sotutu has the skills of a back and hasn't put a foot wrong in black so it is hard to fathom way he hasn't been used. Especially since in SR he has increased his physicality.
For me one should start in the SA tests and they can keep each other honest in the squad. Personally, I think Sotutu has earned the right for the first go. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Sotutu is similar but a bit more dynamic in attack. Sotutu has the skills of a back and hasn't put a foot wrong in black so it is hard to fathom way he hasn't been used.
Because he only covers 8 and Foster loves Ardie there.
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If Grace makes the squad then it’s at the expense of PGS which would be tough because he’s had what? 10mins? Be even tougher if it was for Sotutu.
Starting back row for Boks - Cane/Papali’i, Savea & Barrett with Cane/Papali’i and Akira off the bench.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
BTW if my sauce is correct the reason for delaying the announcement of the team has no conspiracy attached. It is for far more normal and “human” reasons.
It may become evident soon.We asked for players with a bit of mongrel so lucky the Labrador (black lab of course) is the new captain?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Loose forwards seem self evident to me, but it means playing players in their best positions, which the brains trust won't even fucking entertain.
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
The others are in the mix and could well displace the above depending on form and opposition. But for fucks sakes play them in their best positions. For example both Sotutu and Grace are better 8s than Ardie.
Longer term I think Paps will replace Cane as the starting 7 and captain, but I it's a bit early for that yet. Needs to finds his feet at test level first.
Savea is NZ best player and the only forward that other sides currently respect.
So let’s put him on the bench…
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Grace and Sotutu are No.8s and whichever starts will add to the loose trio.
The thing about Grace is that he is the go to guy to take up the ball after a kick, defend the tramlines near the ruck (he has a big shoulder, similar to Jacobson), is a lineout specialist, and reads the game well in support. His play screams test footy.
Sotutu is similar but a bit more dynamic in attack. Sotutu has the skills of a back and hasn't put a foot wrong in black so it is hard to fathom way he hasn't been used. Especially since in SR he has increased his physicality.
For me one should start in the SA tests and they can keep each other honest in the squad. Personally, I think Sotutu has earned the right for the first go.This post has got me thinking whether the best match day loose forward mix might be something like
6 Jacobson
7 Papalii
8 Grace20 Sotutu / Savea / Akira
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My feeling is the Grace’s game is much more likely to translate to the next level that PGS, especially as they don’t seem to see him (PGS) as a 6 - which to me looks like Grace’s best position. Honestly, I dint get why they didn’t put PGS at 6, considering him as the next best to Akira, but fucks knows what these selectors are thinking.
In particular I feel like our line out needs help and Grace is particularly good there.
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I like him, but he still has a lot to learn. I think he's caught between a 6 and an 8 at the moment.
Isn’t that the problem with this team. Players caught between being and 8 or 6, 8 or 7, 7 or 6, 4/5 or 6 and don’t even talk about the backs. Akira was an 8 then we went searching for the next Kaino and now he’s a 6. I think it’s about time someone settles on positions for these guys for stability.
And to me Jacobson isn’t in the equation.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Loose forwards seem self evident to me, but it means playing players in their best positions, which the brains trust won't even fucking entertain.
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
The others are in the mix and could well displace the above depending on form and opposition. But for fucks sakes play them in their best positions. For example both Sotutu and Grace are better 8s than Ardie.
Longer term I think Paps will replace Cane as the starting 7 and captain, but I it's a bit early for that yet. Needs to finds his feet at test level first.
Savea is NZ best player and the only forward that other sides currently respect.
So let’s put him on the bench…
Not sure he's generally our best player in first half.
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@pakman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Loose forwards seem self evident to me, but it means playing players in their best positions, which the brains trust won't even fucking entertain.
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
The others are in the mix and could well displace the above depending on form and opposition. But for fucks sakes play them in their best positions. For example both Sotutu and Grace are better 8s than Ardie.
Longer term I think Paps will replace Cane as the starting 7 and captain, but I it's a bit early for that yet. Needs to finds his feet at test level first.
Savea is NZ best player and the only forward that other sides currently respect.
So let’s put him on the bench…
Not sure he's generally our best player in first half.
And it is time the opposition respected the AB bench! Esp SA given their recent bench front row switcheroo on us!
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@pakman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Loose forwards seem self evident to me, but it means playing players in their best positions, which the brains trust won't even fucking entertain.
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
The others are in the mix and could well displace the above depending on form and opposition. But for fucks sakes play them in their best positions. For example both Sotutu and Grace are better 8s than Ardie.
Longer term I think Paps will replace Cane as the starting 7 and captain, but I it's a bit early for that yet. Needs to finds his feet at test level first.
Savea is NZ best player and the only forward that other sides currently respect.
So let’s put him on the bench…
Not sure he's generally our best player in first half.
This is becoming an accepted fact on this forum which doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. I might be wrong but it usually comes from blues fans trying to push the case for sotutu and/or papalii. Imo he is one the first names on the team sheet, but I would probably move him to 7. In any case if he’s named captain he won’t be on the bench.
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@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@junior What has Jacobson shown at test level? He was dogshit against the Blues this year. Tom Robinson is a much better player, and has had the better of him over the last few seasons.
I was more going for a certain type in the 6 jersey and he was the first name that popped into mind. Definitely Robinson is also an option for this type of player. I think Grace is too, arguably, and IIRC he was first selected as a 6 for the ABs.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@pakman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Loose forwards seem self evident to me, but it means playing players in their best positions, which the brains trust won't even fucking entertain.
Start with Akira - Cane - Sotutu with Ardie off the bench to dominate the final 30. That's world class.
The others are in the mix and could well displace the above depending on form and opposition. But for fucks sakes play them in their best positions. For example both Sotutu and Grace are better 8s than Ardie.
Longer term I think Paps will replace Cane as the starting 7 and captain, but I it's a bit early for that yet. Needs to finds his feet at test level first.
Savea is NZ best player and the only forward that other sides currently respect.
So let’s put him on the bench…
Not sure he's generally our best player in first half.
This is becoming an accepted fact on this forum which doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. I might be wrong but it usually comes from blues fans trying to push the case for sotutu and/or papalii. Imo he is one the first names on the team sheet, but I would probably move him to 7. In any case if he’s named captain he won’t be on the bench.
I’m not a Blues fan but my concern with Ardie is that he drifts in and out of games - especially in the first half, and is usually at his best when he can give maximum effort for 30 minutes or one half.
I think his game doesn’t suit the first 20-30 minutes when we are trying to get established and he can be a weapon off the bench going full noise for 40 minutes as opposed to trying to stay in the game for 80.
That’s not a criticism as I want him doing that as a key weapon of our team.
