All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

kiwiinmelb

Good kick up the butt for savea , 
If dagg plays well , naholo pays well, NMS comes back well , not only is his spot in the run on team in doubt , his place in the squad is in doubt . 
It's all up to him now .

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="588470" data-time="1466026722">
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Which lines should we be reading between? I haven't seen any media that suggests there is something wrong.
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"Jules didn't have one of his great games," coach Steve Hansen said. "There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly. We all know he has not had a great season and he is trying extremely hard here since he came in and has been great."We think taking him out of the pressure of having to play and continuing to keep him working on areas we want him to work on will mean he will benefit from that."
When I read it, I thought they were talking about off-field stuff. May be fitness, may be other things, but either way he's not in good form.

KiwiMurph

I thought the same thing nzzp. 
 
I'm glad they've dropped him - after that performance and his season it is the right move. As mentioned above Savea better be careful as he now gives Naholo a crack at the 11 jersey, who is known for his speed but as we saw on the weekend also has plenty of power in his game too to play that role.

ACT Crusader

I can't believe Hansen brought in Whitelock and Dagg as the two replacements. 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="588504" data-time="1466030397">
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I can't believe Hansen brought in Whitelock and Dagg as the two replacements. 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I know :)
 
At least he's resting Cody Taylor though for that far more important game in Fiji in a few weeks

Immenso Rapido

Adding to the threats to Savea's place. 
The big thing out of the Chiefs v Wales game imo was the performance of Lowe at fullback. 
So now there is also the option of the second fullback at left wing (Lowe) and the power winger on the right (Naholo). 
Ok, I admit I was already a Lowe fan.

Immenso Rapido

I do hope Savea gets back though in the medium term. He has far better core test skills than what Naholo has shown so far.

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588500" data-time="1466029994">
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"Jules didn't have one of his great games," coach Steve Hansen said. "There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly. We all know he has not had a great season and he is trying extremely hard here since he came in and has been great."We think taking him out of the pressure of having to play and continuing to keep him working on areas we want him to work on will mean he will benefit from that."
When I read it, I thought they were talking about off-field stuff. May be fitness, may be other things, but either way he's not in good form. 
 
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Maybe it is personal issues... or maybe they opened up a Carls Jr in his neighbourhood and it is equidistant with his KFC from his house . Such choice can be both distracting and overwhelming.
 
My credibility is severely affected on here - only last week I boldly said Ben Smith would not start on the wing because he's the vice-captain and is too valuable to the team to be stranded on the wing.
 
Fuck I told you so.

mariner4life

credibility is massively over-rated.
 
 
Savea, while the one dropped, isn't miles behind Naholo i think. Naholo did a couple of very good things, mainly because he has mad wheels. He also did some really really ordinary things, and is yet to convince he belongs in my eyes. I still firmly believe Savea is the better player, albeit in worse form. 
 
Good side, i really hope Dagg continues his form from this year, a lot of good AB moments of the last 12 months have started from the back, and he needs to continue that. This will improve our kicking and kick-chase as though.

Rembrandt

I wonder if the desperation to get Naholo into the world cup was due to the selectors worries regarding J Sav? Also, I mentioned this in the match thread but did anyone else notice how much Savea seems to have slimmed down for the Welsh game?, to my eyes he no longer looks deserving of the 'fat' description (I had been drinking though so happy to be proved wrong). Maybe they've gone a bit too hard out on fat loss and that's affected other areas of his game. Getting one's head right is the hardest part though

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Good call. Julian Savea needs to fight hard or he'll be the feature subject of an "Exodus 2017" post after the Lions series.
 
I'm not calling time on his test career but his head space seems to have seriously been affected in the last 18 months and his professionalism should be questioned. He was so-so to moderately good at RWC but in my mind it took a disproportionately high effort from the ABs management and staff to get him to that level. You have to question whether it is the best use of their resources to concentrate so much into one guy.
 
He did sign a mega deal last year, along with Retallick, so I presume he's signed up until 2018 or maybe 2019. NZR take a big risk entering into such arrangements with a winger - sometimes the rate of "disruption" and technological advancement is breathtaking. 
 
Let's hope he's not the Kodak or BlockBuster Video of the rugby world.

Provincial Stalwart

Yes, I acknowledge he was awesome in that France QF.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Excellent point about the older generation, They were all only at the very top for about half a decade on average, a far cry from many in other positions. Obviously that's still time for all mentioned to have careers ranging from very good to legendary, has Savea done enough to warrant being in the latter category ?
 
A mate of mine works very closely with the Canes and says the difference in attitude towards training between the Savea brothers is vast. He reckons Julian has far more natural talent but Ardie literally works his fucken arse off to compensate.

Chris B.

I think Naholo is still finding his feet at international level, but he's been impressive for the Highlanders coming back from injury. Some of the play in his direction, on Saturday, looked a bit frenetic - as if we were over-anxious to get the ball into his hands ASAP. 
 
Maybe needed to construct things a bit more and create a bit more time and space for him.

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="588382" data-time="1466011613">
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Expect the highlander lads en masse for carisbrook.
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I reckon we need the best steppers in the team for Carisbrook - they've got a shitload of weeds and piles of rubble to avoid.
 
<img src="http://www.odt.co.nz/files/u145/the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg" alt="the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg">

JayCee

"There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly."
 
On a positive though this highlights the beauty of our team environment right now. Who knows what is going on with Savea, but whatever it is, it's all behind closed doors, management are working it through with him, and nobody is being a distraction and bigger than the team.

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Smudge" data-cid="588529" data-time="1466033168">
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I reckon we need the best steppers in the team for Carisbrook - they've got a shitload of weeds and piles of rubble to avoid.
 
<img src="http://www.odt.co.nz/files/u145/the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg" alt="the_carcass_of_carisbrook_573e9d9291.jpg">
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I reckon it'll be alright for cricket season though.

Smudge

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="588536" data-time="1466034102">
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I reckon it'll be alright for cricket season though.
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Tip for the openers: wear a helmet.

kiwiinmelb

The rumors are getting louder there is a bit more going on with Julian than just poor rugby form . 
Devlin has said he has been told what it is , but is not going to reveal , but sounded sympathetic so it musnt be anything scandelous.

Frank

Congrats to Izzy Dagg on fighting his way back.
I didn't think he deserved be in the team for the last couple of years, but his improved form (combined with Savea losing his) warrants his selection.
 
I expect he will make a good fist of it.
If he doesn't the world's best fullback will do okay there.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2