All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588451" data-time="1466025333">
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Absolutely had to sacrifice Savea. Impossible to continue to preach "better than last year" and "take it to another level" when you have the antithesis of what they are trying to do on the left wing.
 
The door is certainly open for him to reclaim his spot but I'd say with about 80% certainty he won't get the 11 jersey back permanently. Too competitive, too many new players coming through.
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I think if he is fit he will get the jersey, so in saying that I agree with you in that he will never get it back permanently becasue he is too lazy (In my view)

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="588452" data-time="1466025468">
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I think if he is fit he will get the jersey, so in saying that I agree with you in that he will never get it back permanently becasue he is too lazy (In my view)
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reading between the lines, he has other stuff going on in his life aside from Rugby. Hansen is a great believer that off field stability/quality = good performance on the field. He may well be back later.
 
What Savea offers (on form) is the ability to smash set defensive lines. I don't see this in other players - he can just run through 2-3 tackles, suck in cover and create space. However, when fat and uninterested he's a liability.

Bones

Yeah 2014 Savea was fantastic and on track to become a legendary winger, he was killing it in every facet of play it was expected and IMO was an excellent winger on defence too, he shut down quite a few dangerous opportunities when it was down to him which wasn't really something people noted him for while he was running all over/around people. Really disappointing he's dropped the ball.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="588452" data-time="1466025468">
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I think if he is fit he will get the jersey, so in saying that I agree with you in that he will never get it back permanently becasue he is too lazy (In my view)
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588465" data-time="1466026426">
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reading between the lines, he has other stuff going on in his life aside from Rugby. Hansen is a great believer that off field stability/quality = good performance on the field. He may well be back later.
 
What Savea offers (on form) is the ability to smash set defensive lines. I don't see this in other players - he can just run through 2-3 tackles, suck in cover and create space. However, when fat and uninterested he's a liability. 
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Which lines should we be reading between? I haven't seen any media that suggests there is something wrong.
 
To be fair though, i don't read alot about that sort of thing either

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="588427" data-time="1466020826">
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You know you are over flowing with options when you can drop a guy who has scored 39 tries from only 42 tests.
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Or, that you have at least one other good option. :)

Chris B.

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Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. 
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Dougie the Car Dancer? :)
 
He was sitting in the stands when we crashed out in 2007, as well. Shades of Mils - in fact, Mils was injured and perhaps not yet overtaken by Dagg.

kiwiinmelb

Good kick up the butt for savea , 
If dagg plays well , naholo pays well, NMS comes back well , not only is his spot in the run on team in doubt , his place in the squad is in doubt . 
It's all up to him now .

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="588470" data-time="1466026722">
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Which lines should we be reading between? I haven't seen any media that suggests there is something wrong.
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"Jules didn't have one of his great games," coach Steve Hansen said. "There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly. We all know he has not had a great season and he is trying extremely hard here since he came in and has been great."We think taking him out of the pressure of having to play and continuing to keep him working on areas we want him to work on will mean he will benefit from that."
When I read it, I thought they were talking about off-field stuff. May be fitness, may be other things, but either way he's not in good form.

KiwiMurph

I thought the same thing nzzp. 
 
I'm glad they've dropped him - after that performance and his season it is the right move. As mentioned above Savea better be careful as he now gives Naholo a crack at the 11 jersey, who is known for his speed but as we saw on the weekend also has plenty of power in his game too to play that role.

ACT Crusader

I can't believe Hansen brought in Whitelock and Dagg as the two replacements. 
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SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="588504" data-time="1466030397">
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I can't believe Hansen brought in Whitelock and Dagg as the two replacements. 
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I know :)
 
At least he's resting Cody Taylor though for that far more important game in Fiji in a few weeks

Immenso Rapido

Adding to the threats to Savea's place. 
The big thing out of the Chiefs v Wales game imo was the performance of Lowe at fullback. 
So now there is also the option of the second fullback at left wing (Lowe) and the power winger on the right (Naholo). 
Ok, I admit I was already a Lowe fan.

Immenso Rapido

I do hope Savea gets back though in the medium term. He has far better core test skills than what Naholo has shown so far.

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="588500" data-time="1466029994">
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"Jules didn't have one of his great games," coach Steve Hansen said. "There is a lot happening with Jules and we are working away quietly. We all know he has not had a great season and he is trying extremely hard here since he came in and has been great."We think taking him out of the pressure of having to play and continuing to keep him working on areas we want him to work on will mean he will benefit from that."
When I read it, I thought they were talking about off-field stuff. May be fitness, may be other things, but either way he's not in good form. 
 
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Maybe it is personal issues... or maybe they opened up a Carls Jr in his neighbourhood and it is equidistant with his KFC from his house . Such choice can be both distracting and overwhelming.
 
My credibility is severely affected on here - only last week I boldly said Ben Smith would not start on the wing because he's the vice-captain and is too valuable to the team to be stranded on the wing.
 
Fuck I told you so.

mariner4life

credibility is massively over-rated.
 
 
Savea, while the one dropped, isn't miles behind Naholo i think. Naholo did a couple of very good things, mainly because he has mad wheels. He also did some really really ordinary things, and is yet to convince he belongs in my eyes. I still firmly believe Savea is the better player, albeit in worse form. 
 
Good side, i really hope Dagg continues his form from this year, a lot of good AB moments of the last 12 months have started from the back, and he needs to continue that. This will improve our kicking and kick-chase as though.

Rembrandt

I wonder if the desperation to get Naholo into the world cup was due to the selectors worries regarding J Sav? Also, I mentioned this in the match thread but did anyone else notice how much Savea seems to have slimmed down for the Welsh game?, to my eyes he no longer looks deserving of the 'fat' description (I had been drinking though so happy to be proved wrong). Maybe they've gone a bit too hard out on fat loss and that's affected other areas of his game. Getting one's head right is the hardest part though

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Good call. Julian Savea needs to fight hard or he'll be the feature subject of an "Exodus 2017" post after the Lions series.
 
I'm not calling time on his test career but his head space seems to have seriously been affected in the last 18 months and his professionalism should be questioned. He was so-so to moderately good at RWC but in my mind it took a disproportionately high effort from the ABs management and staff to get him to that level. You have to question whether it is the best use of their resources to concentrate so much into one guy.
 
He did sign a mega deal last year, along with Retallick, so I presume he's signed up until 2018 or maybe 2019. NZR take a big risk entering into such arrangements with a winger - sometimes the rate of "disruption" and technological advancement is breathtaking. 
 
Let's hope he's not the Kodak or BlockBuster Video of the rugby world.

Provincial Stalwart

Yes, I acknowledge he was awesome in that France QF.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="588467" data-time="1466026600">
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I read that first part at first as "if he can fit in the jersey"! Which could be an issue going forward also. NMS has one wing spot when fit, and Naholo is getting a crack now to make a statement. The backlog at 15 provides many less than ideal, but viable options in the back three. Next season we probably turn out another world beater.
 
Lazy or not - 4-6 years seems to be the limit for those ultra-skilled outside backs so he is in the ballpark of being over anyway. In the pro era they lose a step either through injury, age or kidney issues and then it's all over very, very quickly. Of our truly classy wings/fullbacks only Howlett really had a graceful exit. Rok, Sivi, Jonah (obviously unique situation), Wilson, Cullen all were passed by the newer model - when 18 months earlier it would have been inconceivable.
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Excellent point about the older generation, They were all only at the very top for about half a decade on average, a far cry from many in other positions. Obviously that's still time for all mentioned to have careers ranging from very good to legendary, has Savea done enough to warrant being in the latter category ?
 
A mate of mine works very closely with the Canes and says the difference in attitude towards training between the Savea brothers is vast. He reckons Julian has far more natural talent but Ardie literally works his fucken arse off to compensate.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2