The Current State of Rugby
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@JC said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial It’s a legitimate point. When we hear Peyper saying that the tackler has the greater responsibility isn’t that presuming that the team in possession isn’t manufacturing the environment where uncontrolled collisions are more likely?
It's a bit like the old Brumbies Larkham days. Larkham would 'trick' players into having to decide if he had passed or not by turning his back.
I remember the ref telling him once, after being flattened from behind without the ball, 'you created that, you take it' -
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@Nepia sadly league deals with a number of things better than rugby now, and yet we seem to have only replicated a few of thier rules so far...
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Nepia sadly league deals with a number of things better than rugby now, and yet we seem to have only replicated a few of thier rules so far...
I’m not particularly fond of the ones we have replicated either … but would like some others.
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
My problem with this though is that it completely dumbs down the game and makes intercepts a high risk option handing an advantage to the team in possession. The game is meant to be about contesting possession legally and intercepting the pass is legal.
So do it right and you won't get penalised? Same as tackling innit?
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@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
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in terms of state of the rugby, the thing that keeps bouncing around my brain is that for a lot of professionals, modern rugby is playing the ref more than playing the actual game. Its not trying to come up with smart plays necessarily, it's trying to manufacture penalties or cards to try something high risk and/or get an advantage.
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline (and that's only a chance at possession). Would help to keep the game moving, reduce teh size of players, etc.
There's a lot broken in the sport at the moment.
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
Finally, 20 m and possession has to be advantage. It's what you get if you kick to the sideline
I like this, it's like every other team also has Barrett/Mounga/Hunt kicking for them.
And a bonus for those with Josh Ioane
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Long advantages have been a problem for me for some time
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Or you get that ref (think an aussie one?) that blows up immediately after a knock on.
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@JC The point is that covid is fucking everywhere, most of the rest of the world has moved on and Sumo was implying that the open training session was being held in a "dirty" place.
After 2 years of this nonsense you'd think we could move away from that narrative of unvaxed people being the great unwashed.
It sounded so performative from Sumo on the podcast. Clutching his pearls at the working class, "forgive them Irish pod for they know not what they do".
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@junior said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
Fear for the game - concussions, dementia etc.
Most are pro the cards, agree it’s ruining games but think it’s a necessary evil. Ppl not in favour of size reduction, everybody (bar the Jaapie) think the SA bomb squad is super dangerous. Absurd that SA don’t start their best front row.
Rest is all mixed views but above I would say is consensus.
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I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
If you thought the NZ v Ireland series was a bit shit, rugby union is not for you anymore
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@canefan was very noticeable in the Boks Wales game that advantage was interminable. Couldn’t see what principle the ref was applying, if there was one. It encourages cynical play - the opposite of the point of advantage.
One aspect of the last few games that I’ve enjoyed is refs allowing a real contest at the ruck and allowing weight of bodies to tell. Fair few rucks turned over by piling bodies in, even if they end up off their feet past the ball.
Makes sense to me. Almost impossible to keep your feet when you’ve steamrolled the opposition. And makes the ruck a contest after the absurd knee on the ground tackle call.
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@Steve
I made a comment in another thread, the ABs will always be "dirty" in the eyes of neutrals, so why worry about being nice guys long as you win?
They are the reverse Black Caps. The Black Caps will probably always the nice guys, and many neutrals second team even when they are actually very good. Likewise the ABs will be hated by any tier one nation even when they are shit e.g. now. McCaw was hated by many (some jokingly) but also called a GOAT. That's where you want to be.Most sports with any sort of mainstream following are entertaining as a viewer as long as you are invested in the outcome. The NZRU seems to be taking for granted casual and even hardcore viewers will still tune in regardless, but if the ABs keep losing then they won't. We can see that in many comments here. A lot of them won't come back if they become invested in other sports (or other interests in general). A national team isn't the same thing a local rivalry. National teams get massively bandwagoned by casuals when they do well, and lose fans when they don't. It's not that they won't support them and want them to win, but they won't invest their time and money. Especially when they see the whole thing is run with a toxic combination of arrogance and incompetence that allowed Foster to get the job and keep it despite 90% of fans being against the appointment and hating the outcome.
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@MiketheSnow that's awfully simplistic mate.
The decisions left an awful sour taste. how can you watch the second test and then be supposed to swallow what happened in the third.
It's a disingenuous sleight of hand to suggest otherwise.
Peoples careers are on the line here. Cane could lose the captaincy and by extension his place in the team. Foster could lose his job. etc etc.
This 3 test series was reffed with an infuriating inconsistency.
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Remember Romain Poite in the Lions NZ 3rd test . "we have a deal". accidental offside etc.
The NZ fan has been fucking stoic enough for too long. All and sundry calling them cheats and they are getting railroaded by the refs for years now.
Its bolloxology.
