The Current State of Rugby
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Long advantages have been a problem for me for some time
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
The advantage interpretation doesn't help. We should get 3 phases, and if you're not getting or about to get an advantage, blow it up and come back. 20 phases and come back for a penalty? Fark that shit sucks.
Especially if in the 22, you keep getting a new advantage, then the opposition get a warning, then they take a scrum or lineout, run through phases hoping to draw another penalty and that YC you said teams seem to play for...
Or you get that ref (think an aussie one?) that blows up immediately after a knock on.
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@JC The point is that covid is fucking everywhere, most of the rest of the world has moved on and Sumo was implying that the open training session was being held in a "dirty" place.
After 2 years of this nonsense you'd think we could move away from that narrative of unvaxed people being the great unwashed.
It sounded so performative from Sumo on the podcast. Clutching his pearls at the working class, "forgive them Irish pod for they know not what they do".
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@junior said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MajorRage said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
What are the problems that people see up north? I can guess what they might be but I am really curious to hear what they are and if they are different to the issues seen down south.
Fear for the game - concussions, dementia etc.
Most are pro the cards, agree it’s ruining games but think it’s a necessary evil. Ppl not in favour of size reduction, everybody (bar the Jaapie) think the SA bomb squad is super dangerous. Absurd that SA don’t start their best front row.
Rest is all mixed views but above I would say is consensus.
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I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
I think it's plain to see that the "product" is a bit shit at the moment.
The problem is the NH are revelling in their new found dominance.
So they are saying suck it up buttercup and we look like whingers down here.
Objectively the game has gone to rat shit. The Lions tour was abysmal and was an advertisement of a sport which has truly gone off the deep end, resplendent with shithousery, time wasting, injury feigning, water breaks and TMO interventions.
I think the game has long been on a slow decline due to commercialisation and money/winning becoming the end that justifies the means.
Project players, poaches, Gatland managing Lions , Farrell managing Ireland, Schmidt coaching Ireland, Rennie and Deans managing OZ, Jones managing England . Letting O Gara come to Crusaders etc. I prefer tribalism. Our lot vs your lot. The amount of intellectual IP we have exported on and off the field over the last decade is ridiculous.
Seeing Aki, Lowe and Gibson Park celebrating wildly against the team they grew up idolising left me cold. As soon as their careers are over they will move back to NZ just like CJ Stander did to SA. Mercenary stuff.
Its all gone too friendly. It has been the allblacks downfall too. They are too accessible now. Dressing room footage of all the opposition in having a beer and getting chummy. The aura is gone. They humanised themselves for social media clicks. They are too nice. Even the punditry on the breakdown and sky commentary falls over itself to be overly impartial. The train has over shot the station. They have over corrected to the point of insincerity. Trying not to be seen as arrogant New Zealanders etc. Good people make good allblacks. "no dickheads" policy.
That O'Mahoney comment to Cane should have been met with retribution at the time or in the 3rd test. NZ are carrying on like a bunch of fucking BETA's these days from the pundits, to the management, to the media, to the players. Nice guys finish fucking last. We could have done with a couple of dickheads over the series. We got towelled up in the physical exchanges.
On the cards. Anyone who goes down the dementia, CTE, concussion line of argument cannot be taken seriously unless they agree that the Ta'avao and Porter incidents should have been treated identically. I was reading cries of thuggery on Irish message boards and beyond about every NZ indiscretion and then lots of hand waving away about the Porter incident. People are trying to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds at the same time. If the head is sacrosanct then Porter should have walked. Foster is a clown but if I was him id be fucking seething sitting in the stand watching that. He is a national embarrassment but could have easily won the series based on those head clash decisions alone.
If you thought the NZ v Ireland series was a bit shit, rugby union is not for you anymore
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@canefan was very noticeable in the Boks Wales game that advantage was interminable. Couldn’t see what principle the ref was applying, if there was one. It encourages cynical play - the opposite of the point of advantage.
One aspect of the last few games that I’ve enjoyed is refs allowing a real contest at the ruck and allowing weight of bodies to tell. Fair few rucks turned over by piling bodies in, even if they end up off their feet past the ball.
Makes sense to me. Almost impossible to keep your feet when you’ve steamrolled the opposition. And makes the ruck a contest after the absurd knee on the ground tackle call.
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@Steve
I made a comment in another thread, the ABs will always be "dirty" in the eyes of neutrals, so why worry about being nice guys long as you win?
They are the reverse Black Caps. The Black Caps will probably always the nice guys, and many neutrals second team even when they are actually very good. Likewise the ABs will be hated by any tier one nation even when they are shit e.g. now. McCaw was hated by many (some jokingly) but also called a GOAT. That's where you want to be.Most sports with any sort of mainstream following are entertaining as a viewer as long as you are invested in the outcome. The NZRU seems to be taking for granted casual and even hardcore viewers will still tune in regardless, but if the ABs keep losing then they won't. We can see that in many comments here. A lot of them won't come back if they become invested in other sports (or other interests in general). A national team isn't the same thing a local rivalry. National teams get massively bandwagoned by casuals when they do well, and lose fans when they don't. It's not that they won't support them and want them to win, but they won't invest their time and money. Especially when they see the whole thing is run with a toxic combination of arrogance and incompetence that allowed Foster to get the job and keep it despite 90% of fans being against the appointment and hating the outcome.
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@MiketheSnow that's awfully simplistic mate.
The decisions left an awful sour taste. how can you watch the second test and then be supposed to swallow what happened in the third.
It's a disingenuous sleight of hand to suggest otherwise.
Peoples careers are on the line here. Cane could lose the captaincy and by extension his place in the team. Foster could lose his job. etc etc.
This 3 test series was reffed with an infuriating inconsistency.
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Remember Romain Poite in the Lions NZ 3rd test . "we have a deal". accidental offside etc.
The NZ fan has been fucking stoic enough for too long. All and sundry calling them cheats and they are getting railroaded by the refs for years now.
Its bolloxology.
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow that's awfully simplistic mate.
The decisions left an awful sour taste. how can you watch the second test and then be supposed to swallow what happened in the third.
It's a disingenuous sleight of hand to suggest otherwise.
Peoples careers are on the line here. Cane could lose the captaincy and by extension his place in the team. Foster could lose his job. etc etc.
This 3 test series was reffed with an infuriating inconsistency.
Agreed 100%
And it was still high drama and high skills
Thrilling
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Remember Romain Poite in the Lions NZ 3rd test . "we have a deal". accidental offside etc.
The NZ fan has been fucking stoic enough for too long. All and sundry calling them cheats and they are getting railroaded by the refs for years now.
Its bolloxology.
Give them all knighthoods now
Poor dabs
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I don't know what that means? not familiar with the lingo. Dabs?
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It was worse than Barrett’s (only because POM ducked) but Barrett’s actions got lots of people around the world frothing about dirty ABs that may have contributed to the refereeing in game 2. And whataboutery by citing Barrett is wrong as two wrongs don’t make a right.
Aki’s was a blatant red card, swept under the carpet now because there is a bigger story about how shit the ABs are.
Porter and Aki should have been red carded. As it stands, 2 ABs were forced from the field after failing HIA’s and world rugby is committed to player welfare and protecting the head of course…especially non Nz heads it seems!
Meanwhile Ryan jones comes out with early onset dementia at the weekend.
Rugby is a slow-Mo car crash with head injuries - except when it is AB head injuries as they don’t get too be replayed much if at all
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
Its bolloxology
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Stealling bolloxology, that's gold. Quality rant @Steve
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
I don't know what that means? not familiar with the lingo. Dabs?
Poor little darlings
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Thought I would join the other long time lurkers and re-enter the fray.
World rugby has created a no win scenario with the way they want dangerous contact officiated.
Refs can't win if they give a red they ruin the match. Which costs a small fortune to go and watch. They don't they're not being consistent and as we have seen over a 3 match series they can cost a team the series.
Ireland would most likely not have held on with 14 men in the 3rd. The All Black's had almost no chance in the second with 14. Those are just the realities of top flight rugby at this level. Now it looks like whoops we got it wrong oh well you're good sports take it on the chin and move on.
If Foster goes because a ref made the wrong call that seems pretty shitty for him. I say that as someone who was never for his taking the top job.
I think where we went wrong was when we adopted the card system. Hear me out as I roll back the years.
Back in the day rugby was a bit like ice hockey, there was a code and if you deliberately tried to hurt someone there were consequences. You would get filled in sooner or later. Normally sooner. Dirty play existed but was dealt with outside the framework of the match. Kind of like fighting in hockey. You can cross check someone to the face. But the Piper is going to come calling and you're going to pay for it
Then TV got good, and this stuff was being spotted and it needed to be stopped. So we looked around and thought Football (soccer for those so inclined) has discipline all figured out, let's adopt their card system. So yellows and reds. But yellows are kind of bullshit. They can be for anything from smashing a guys cheekbone accidentally, not being good enough to hold up your side of the scrum, fucking up an intercept, doing the same dumb shit over and over again despite being told not to. With reds held back for real foul play, punching, biting eye gouging sort of thing. Because we didn't want players dealing out discipline to each other. But in football a red card is not a death knell. If you're leading or drawing park the bus. If losing you can still score most games are decided by 1 or 2 goals. You don't score in multiples.
Then head injuries became a focus point and reds started being applied for all sorts of things, jumping in the air to catch a ball but not getting it, not jumping and having someone who is land on you head clashes of any sort. Stuff that may have had no ill intent at all.
So now games and even test series are frequently spoiled by red cards.
Okay so history lesson over. What's the solution?
How about we look at the other big money sports? If we don't want to go the ice hockey route fine I get that.
But the NBA and the NFL don't fuck over the Superbowl because some one has a brain explosion and tries to decapitate someone. They give the team offended against a decent penalty then they kick the offender's sorry arse out, continue the match and fine them into oblivion. The team gets fined as well. Normally a lot more then the player. Money fucking matters, so that stops teams sending out hitmen to take out players.
So my proposal keep yellows for repeat offending or cynical play. It's within the construct of the game. But for filth, 7 points and the player is ejected. If you get it wrong the player is cleared at judiciary and a 7 point advantage isn't enough that the game is out of reach. Players will stop that shit we saw in England Aussie real quick when they are writing 5 figure cheques.
Final thoughts, Barrett in the first test and Aki in the 3rd were far better candidates for trips to the judiciary then Ta'avao and Porter. Their actions had intent they lined up players unable to defend themselves and smashed shoulders into them. Yet both not even looked at it. That makes literally no sense. Oh WalesOnline I am still waiting for your write up about Akis "sickening" challenge. Just kidding what you do can hardly be considered writing.
That series could have gone either way. Honestly we were robbed from ever knowing the real outcome by officiating, that's not acceptable.
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@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow that's awfully simplistic mate.
The decisions left an awful sour taste. how can you watch the second test and then be supposed to swallow what happened in the third.
It's a disingenuous sleight of hand to suggest otherwise.
Peoples careers are on the line here. Cane could lose the captaincy and by extension his place in the team. Foster could lose his job. etc etc.
This 3 test series was reffed with an infuriating inconsistency.
Agreed 100%
And it was still high drama and high skills
Thrilling
From one side...if we had played well and lost, I'd agree, we played poorly, some contentious reffing decisions and bam, not that great of a Rugby spectacle, occasion, absolutely a great occasion for Ireland, they played some great rugby, but was one sided.
