All Blacks vs Wales

kiwiinmelb

I think it was mentioned here quite a bit in the past , that a SBW 12 Crotty 13 , gives us the most similar look and feel to a Nonu Conrad partnership , if that is what we want to achieve , at this stage I think we need to see what Ngatai can offer at this level 
 
I understand the backline picked last night , with the losses , it was probably trying to get the balance between experience and continuing on from what worked at the WC

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="586800" data-time="1465669262">
<div>
Things we've learnt: 
Wales aren't a bad side, 
Some of the newbies are still learning their trade, 
You do miss Richie McCaw and Conrad Smith, 
The All Blacks still have awesome impact from the bench 
Questioning the ability and performance of Sam Cane goes down like a bucket of sick with some Ferners.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
You forgot:
sparky is a whiney baby.

nostrildamus

>sparky is a whiney baby 
unfair imo: sparky can have a different preference for #7 
I was just surprised there were no Todd fanbois for once! 
nb I'd also like to see if Moala or Ngatai would go ok in the midfield- Fekitoa has the attributes but not the assurance over how many tests now? 14?

Catogrande

Fuck me boys. You've just won a full on test match and won it well. Now you want to bite chunks of each other. Lucky you didn't lose otherwise the blood would be flowing.
 
You'e come of a long international off season, having lost a few of the absolute greats of the modern game, you'e beaten a good Welsh side. Well. 
 
Enjoy it and let provincial bias wait until tomorrow.
 
Then bring it on. :idiot2:

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586819" data-time="1465675472">
<div>
Fuck me boys. You've just won a full on test match and won it well. Now you want to bite chunks of each other. Lucky you didn't lose otherwise the blood would be flowing.
 
You'e come of a long international off season, having lost a few of the absolute greats of the modern game, you'e beaten a good Welsh side. Well. 
 
Enjoy it and let provincial bias wait until tomorrow.
 
Then bring it on. :idiot2:
</div>
</blockquote>
Lol it's NZ rugby supporters doing their thing.

nzzp

Righto, a post-match report.
 
A fantastic night for test rugby at Eden Park. Lovely weather, managed to get into a pub near the ground and sink a few pints, was still 15 degrees in the car on the way home. Thoroughly enjoyed it, even if the quality of the AB game didn't reach great heights.

Highlights
well, we won.
THe try in the first half where Ben Smith arrived to a high ball late, claimed it and then smoked it up the field, defenders were manipulated and we finished an 85 m move. Lovely, one of the better tries we've seen at the park in a while.
<crickets chirping>
 
Things to think about (in no particular order).
We missed Smith C defensively. Our defensive alignment was pants, and people didn't seem confidnet in where to stand or defend. Naholo came in off his wing big time to let Wales in for the first try.
 
Savea's defence was shocking. Missed two routine one-on-ones out wide, and didn't even slow down the Welsh. Abysmal. Looked, fat slow and uninterested. If Hanson wants a fat, slow, older bloke, I promise to be more engaged than he was Not surprised he got yanked 2 minutes in the second half, I'd have done the same. Offered little on attack, and hasn't been in good form for a couple of years. Needs to re-think whether he wants to play in NZ and for teh ABs.
 
Our tackling in general. I can't remember slipping off so many tackles so often. Just stone cold misses, hits where we slip down and let the player run, it was shocking. Which leads to the next point.
 
Defusing bombs has gone from a strength to a weakness. Playing two wings doesn't seem to work for us - we are far far better off with a wing/fullback on one wing. Right now, you'd take Naholo over Savea (unless he arcs up at training), and then Smith and Dagg I fear, with Barrett off the bench. I feel dirty just writing that, but it seems to be a sensible option.
 
Basically, we saw a lot of experience missing. Turns out if you rip out the spine of a team including Kev, Rich, Dan, Ma'a, Conrad and Woodcock you struggle with leadership and organisation a bit. Who farking knew? Wales have bet on experience coming down, but this is a short term patch.
 
Wales played bloody well. Aggressive, disruptive and into everything. Just didn't have the motor to hold on, but if they had been up by 10 with 10 to go, would it have mattered? Gatland clearly knows how to beat the ABs - push the line, take chances and run shedloads of turnover ball. Well done to them - they turned up and played a hard game that lasted really well. 
 
In saying that about Wales, our structure was shockingly poor. We didn't <cliche> earn the right to go wide, just spread too quickly and got swallowed up. Unsurprisingly, our turnaround came when we started playing forwards hitting the ball up and creating space elsewhere. 
 
Welsh tighties can be very very happyw ith their day out. I think they were into us so much it made our loosies look poor for most of the match. Not at all disappointed in the Read/Cane/Kaino trio, but they didn't have a visible night out there.
 
Ardie Savea. Fark, what a start to his career. I'm not a fluffer, but he looked physically dominant when he came on. Has work to do, but the 3 wise men will be all over him. Cane played well. but in a different way. See above for having to get stuck into the tight stuff.
 
 
 
 
ALl in all, we won a physical game, and well done to us. I have got this far without talking about the refereeing, but it was not up to international standard. As a team they missed a lot of stuff, and made interesting calls, none more so than the forward pass. We don't play well under Wayne for some reason - style just seems different - and neutrals usually write off our objections as whinging after 07. I'd be happy if we didn't play under him for another 10+ years, he just has these brain farts. 
 
Roll on the next two tests, and roll on the Rugby Championship. I've missed rugby!

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="586821" data-time="1465675993">
<div>
.. Gatland clearly knows how to beat the ABs ... 
</div>
</blockquote>
 Seriously? Based on what?

taniwharugby

I think some of the rustiness can be put down to the first game of the season, some to the Welsh and a few combinations. 
I don't expect many changes next week, the core of this squad is there and will be rotated around. 
If I were to make a change, which would be reflex only, would be Julian out, but I did suggest that before the game too, so what do I know. 
Sparky, you don't offend me with your incessant fluffing, but like other say, it does become tiresome.

Catogrande

Re Wayne Barnes. I think overall he's a pretty good ref but I don't trust him not to have a complete twattoccasion each game. For the no forward pass, disallowed try, I can understand him going upstairs for it but then to question the outcome and override it - why ask in the first place? There was a similar thing in the SA A v Engl Saxons when the ref asked the question, got the answer and then questioned the answer twice. If you're sure, make the call. If you have to go upstairs take the advice ffs.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="586409" data-time="1465635210">
Similar to early in Aaron Smiths career, he gets rattled when his forwards aren't serving it up.</blockquote>
 
Canerbry? You posting using TR's login?

sparky

Not sure I'd pick Julian Savea for the next test, even though he scored a try. His defence and conditioning are both concerning. 
Barrett or Dagg at full back, Ben smith to 14, Naholo to 11.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586825" data-time="1465676410">
<div>
 Seriously? Based on what?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Good question. I think he has enougth experience in NZ and the southern hemishpere to understand that if you play pattern against the ABs and try and grind a win it just won't work. He has managed to get his players on board with playing an expansive brand of opportunistic rugby, built around running turnover ball back. The support in general last night was executed really well for most of the game, but faded towards the end.
 
I'm not sure all coaches understand this, paritcularly from the NH. It is easier in some ways to play grinding spoiling rugby and lose by less, than chance a blowout. Expansive footy can backfire against a good side, but if you are prepared to go in to win, then it's a chance. The Argentinians have evolved their rugby style as well to be more aggressive in attack and counterattack. 
 
Do you rate Gatland, or is the jury still out?

taniwharugby

The I expect Wayne Smith to be very busy this week, I think Naholo was drifting in a lot, Crotty-Fekitoa need time to build a combo, but geez they were pretty anonymous. 
For once I agree with rotated the game plan revolves around getting the ball to Naholo, which is all well and good, but good to get the other basics right. 
Plenty of kinks to iron out, but always are after the first test

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="586526" data-time="1465638030">
Will try and sober up before commenting further ... but Barnsry still can't work out what constitutes a forward pass. 
Dickhead. ..</blockquote>
 
Just on this , that was an awful call by Barnes for TJs try. Just wrong. 
But i recall him missing what I thought was a clear forward pass in the build up to one of the Taffs tries. 
Also thought Coles was on side for that second penalty that Biggar kicked. Yes he was in front of Smith when he knocked on, but then as he had retreated a couple of steps and Smith had advanced I thought he was put on. Mind you is he subject to being inside the 10m ?? Would have been tough to pick up on the field though. 
I wasn't greatly upset by Barnesy's reffing. Usual grumbles and I expect Welsh peeps woul have some too, but he is capable of the most horrendous errors.

nostrildamus

so people are getting off the bus now,,,

nostrildamus

on Barnes well at least he did something incredible as a ref and maybe a first in international rugby - he made Ayoub look good!

Catogrande

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="586833" data-time="1465677453">
<div>
Good question. I think he has enougth experience in NZ and the southern hemishpere to understand that if you play pattern against the ABs and try and grind a win it just won't work. He has managed to get his players on board with playing an expansive brand of opportunistic rugby, built around running turnover ball back. The support in general last night was executed really well for most of the game, but faded towards the end.
 
I'm not sure all coaches understand this, paritcularly from the NH. It is easier in some ways to play grinding spoiling rugby and lose by less, than chance a blowout. Expansive footy can backfire against a good side, but if you are prepared to go in to win, then it's a chance. The Argentinians have evolved their rugby style as well to be more aggressive in attack and counterattack. 
 
Do you rate Gatland, or is the jury still out?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Ach. Maybe. I saw a lot more from Wales in this match than I'd seen for a long while. Under Gatland they'd been successful up here but one dimensional. Historilcally for Ireland and Wasps he got them fitter, more believing and had a good blitz defence. This worked well for a while then got found out. With Wales, he's been blessed with some very good players who not only suit his system but have bought into it. But sooo limited.
 
Under Woodward, England won only one Grand Slam but beat all the SH teams home and away. Gatland's Wales have won two GS but have done dick all else. Gatland's Wales play grinding rugby but have the players to be much more expansive. So no, I'm not sure I do rate him per the longer term.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="586840" data-time="1465678174">
<div>
Gatland's Wales play grinding rugby but have the players to be much more expansive. So no, I'm not sure I do rate him per the longer term.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
They sure as hell weren't grinding last night! And I guess that's kind of my point - I think Gats understands what he needs to do to win against different opposition. He has got his boys playing differnetly down here to a 1D play up north.
 
We were end on last night, and the support for the Welsh ball carrier after a break was sensational. We were bloody lucky to kill off a few attacks (the one where A Smith got up to intercept a looped pass stood out - he's too short to do that!). The Taffs just poured through and kept their width, great to watch if you weren't an AB supporter losing the game.

SammyC

Savea rightly subbed early, he was lazy as fuck on cover defense and missed 3 one on one tackles on north. Wonder if we'll see him again this series. 
Midfield was a bit toothless, Hansen seemed to suggest in his interview after the game that he'll stick with them though. They deserve another chance I think. 
Thought Romano was ok, no worse than Retallick, who definately didn't have his best game for the abs. But fuck, Patrick tuipoloto was a beast when he came on, a few big hits in defense, and making serious ground running with the ball. And an awesome lineout steal too. 
And Ardie was awesome. Still think he'll overtake cane in the next couple of years (not immediately, so calm down Chiefs mafia ). Global superstar in the making

Catogrande

Yeah mate. Today's (last night's) game was a good advert for Welsh rugby, albeit a heavy loss on the scoreboard. However before I go overboard on Gatland's ability to coach more than one game plan I'd have to see this backed up by more than one game and even then to ignore the lack of flexibility throughout his tenure with Wales, Ireland, Wasps, Lions. And yeah, his Lions won the series but if Beale had longer studs on it would have been 2-1 Aussie.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales