All Blacks vs Wales

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="585582" data-time="1465343677">
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Possibly, or perhaps the 6 you have mentioned are not as good as you are making out?
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I think it's safe to say all would rate mentions in a "best in the world" discussion. All of them are Lions which is nothing to sniff at.
 
Just find it rather odd that in less than a year they've gone from a team that did well to get out of a very tough WC pool to taking on ( admittedly the World champs ) who have lost a lot of experience and world class......but it's "only" Wales so the ABs should put 50 on them in each test.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="585589" data-time="1465345011">
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I think it's safe to say all would rate mentions in a "best in the world" discussion. All of them are Lions which is nothing to sniff at.
 
Just find it rather odd that in less than a year they've gone from a team that did well to get out of a very tough WC pool to taking on ( admittedly the World champs ) who have lost a lot of experience and world class......but it's "only" Wales so the ABs should put 50 on them in each test.
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I don't think too many people are expecting 50 points, especially in each test, I think you are stretching things there.
 
The issue I see is the likelihood of Wales winning a test - it looks very low - let's look at some factors
 
- The stats of Wales vs Southern Hemisphere teams under Gatland talked about earlier in the thread, it is woeful.
 
- The ABs haven't lost at Eden Park since 1994, or in NZ at all since 2009
 
- Wales looked poor vs England in the warmup game.
 
- The ABs have also had an extra week prep than they often normally have at this time of year and they are picking a near full strength team and almost everyone is in decent form. 
 
Having said all that - I sense a bit of an ambush approach from Wales and I expect Wales to come out all fire and brimstone v the ABs on Saturday and the ABs to be a bit slow out of the blocks. I'd be shocked if the ABs don't win relatively comfortably - but I think early on in test 1 it will be a bit of a wakeup call.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="585589" data-time="1465345011">
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I think it's safe to say all would rate mentions in a "best in the world" discussion. All of them are Lions which is nothing to sniff at.
 
Just find it rather odd that in less than a year they've gone from a team that did well to get out of a very tough WC pool to taking on ( admittedly the World champs ) who have lost a lot of experience and world class......but it's "only" Wales so the ABs should put 50 on them in each test.
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I take your point, and I don't think the ABs themselves will be of the "it's only Wales" mindset. They'll know they have some class players and will be hell bent on putting in a good performance.
 
It's the fans that are saying "it's only Wales". And, when you look at their record in NZ, it's a fair enough comment. Their record is 0 from 7 by a combined score of 284-46. Until that changes they will always be rated lowly when playing in NZ.
 
If the game was in Wales, there'd be a lot more talk about a possible upset.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="585567" data-time="1465340404">How can a team that has genuine class players across the board like AWJ, Warburton, Faletau, North, Roberts and Davies be so lowly rated.....are the nine I haven't mentioned shit beyond words ?</blockquote>
 
They've had quality players over a number of years but as I wrote on another forum, New Zealand has outscored Wales by 300 points in the last 13 tests, with an average scoreline of 37-14. 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

antipodean

I expect a close game decided by a few points at the death where Wales completely fuck up a chance of winning it, a game where the scoreboard flatters the All Blacks as they put on some margin at the end, and one where the Special Victims Unit is called in to investigate.

Crazy Horse

Unless I am missing something here, but have a Wales only played 7 tests in NZ? I thought it would have been more than that.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="585601" data-time="1465350361">
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Unless I am missing something here, but have a Wales only played 7 tests in NZ? I thought it would have been more than that.
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Given their results, I don't think they've been in a rush to come back.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="585602" data-time="1465350408">
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Given their results, I don't think they've been in a rush to come back.
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That seems like fuck all.....France on the other hand seem to pop over here all the time ( Wikipedia confirms this, 28 tests in all )
 
Even the dour, penny pinching Scots have ponied up here more than the "proud" Welsh, 10 tests on NZ soil.
 
For a nation as into Rugby as Wales are that's a really piss poor effort. Fuck it, let's put 200 on the fluffybunnies over the three tests !

SabalomG

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="585601" data-time="1465350361">
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Unless I am missing something here, but have a Wales only played 7 tests in NZ? I thought it would have been more than that.
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they played 7 tests here during the 2011 world cup. It's probably 7 tests against NZ in NZ.

Immenso Rapido

The dodgy journo Galagher has a feature on Wales tours/tests in NZ: <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/brendan-gallagher/26032/brendan-gallagher-looks-at-how-wales-have-never-yet-come-to-terms-with-touring-in-new-zealand/">http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/brendan-gallagher/26032/brendan-gallagher-looks-at-how-wales-have-never-yet-come-to-terms-with-touring-in-new-zealand/</a> 
I found part of the article quite interesting, as 1969 is well before my time, and that was a great NZ team and welsh team about to become great. So it was a lot of new info in there for me. 
However, I remember the 1988 tour extremely well. and some of the stuff Galagher writes about that tour is just plain stretching normailty to try and make it sound like the extreme, plus a few outrigh untruths, again. So now I doubt if what he has written about 1969 resembes the truth. 
About 1988: <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
"This time they stepped off the plane and went straight into three games in eight days against the then three strongest provincial sides in New Zealand â€“ Waikato, Wellington and Otago."</blockquote>
 
Well this is wrong. Waikato were only 1 year up from Division 2, wellington were actiually the second best team from the previous NPC (but about to implode that year), Otago were on the way up, and probably were the second best provincial team in NZ in 1988. But the strongest team in NZ from 1987 to 1993 was Auckland, second stongest was Auckand B, third strongest was Ponsonby :-), then Auckland Marist .... etc. Waikato beating Wales was such a shock (at the time, but only for about 3 days until we realised how abysmal they were still in the next match). 
Also about 1988: <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
"Come the first Test in Christchurch â€“ the fourth change of venue and internal flight in ten days, Wales were ripe for the picking." </blockquote>
Makes it sound like playing a tour of Wed > Sat > Wed > Sat (TEST) was something strange ...... 
Anyway. Interesting article to get a different view, and will be interesting for those who don't remembr the tours. But is full of excuse making, with the caveat of being by a whining journalist whol likes to make stuff up, so keep an open mind. 
Will be interested in reading any feedback from those old enough to remember 1969.

taniwharugby

At least we know the Welsh will play with passion!

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="585610" data-time="1465354492">
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At least we know the Welsh will play with passion!
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"Passion" is just a kind word that rugby writers bestow on shit teams.
 
The Scots always play with a lot of passion.

taniwharugby

Celtic Passion!

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="585614" data-time="1465355399">
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Celtic Passion!
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That's it brudda, "they got hammered, but they played with PASSION !"

taniwharugby

cant beat passion...or, well, you can beat it on the score board, but if you play with passion, it is awesome!

Crazy Horse

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Sabalom Glitz" data-cid="585607" data-time="1465353559">
they played 7 tests here during the 2011 world cup. It's probably 7 tests against NZ in NZ.</blockquote>
 
Yeah I realised 7 tests against NZ is what they were meaning. Sloppy wording on my part.

dogmeat

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="585609" data-time="1465354192">
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Will be interested in reading any feedback from those old enough to remember 1969.
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That EP world record victory in 69 was the first test match I ever went to.
 
I was a bit young to really appreciate it, but I don't remember the reffing being considered an issue. It was definitely a case of the AB pack monstering them and then the points just kept coming probably due to differing interpretations. I do remember we did a lot of rucking. 33-12 was as one sided an international as there'd ever been and as a kid I actually got a bit bored with how easy it seemed.
 
Mind you it was a really decent AB pack with a serviceable backline. I don't remember it as being as exciting as watching the 67 tests from the UK on TV.
 
The welsh players certainly did get their revenge when I attended my 2nd test match against the Lions two years later.
 
I don't think anyone who didn't live through it can appreciate the profound shock that 71 tour was to the rugby public. Sure we'd lost to the Boks the previous year but that was in SA and they cheated :yes:
 
We simply weren't expecting in our worst nightmares anything other than a AB walkover. Certainly not the humiliation that unfolded. AB teams weren't supposed to be slow, less skilled, less aggressive, tactically naÃ¯ve and years behind in planning and execution. Yet it happened. In large due to that 69 Welsh side. Bastards ;)

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="585637" data-time="1465364434">
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Yet it happened. In large due to that 69 Welsh side. Bastards ;)
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And Carwyn James the Lions and Llanelli coach - who was Welsh, though he never coached Wales.

Catogrande

Going back to the autobiography of Gareth Edwards, he wrote about the 69 tour and of course the 71 Lions tour. There was no whining on his part (and by extension the rest of the Welsh team) regarding the 69 tour, the reffing or the itinerary. Sure it was a tough tour and he did state that there was a fair bit of travelling but that was about it. In writing on both tours something he did say was the sheer difficulty of playing bloody tough games one after the other. There were no soft option games. All were very physical and attritional. He also said the foundations for the Lions win in 71 were laid in the Wales tour of 69 and that they knew what they were in for and had a better handle on how to cope.
 
Interestingly (in re the siege mentality bit) Carling had something to say about touring NZ with England - basically that there was NO let up. Not on the playing side, not on the social side, not on the relaxation side. NZ was a beautiful country with lots to see and do but the NZ public are so rugby mad and in the main so well informed on their rugby that there is no escape. He told the story of wanting to send some post cards home from some little one horse town out in the country and went into the post office to buy some stamps. The little old grandma behind the counter said "You're Will Carling aren't you? Gonna be a tough day at the office for you guys on Saturday. You've got some good tight forwards but your loosies are too slow and there's no balance to your back row. That's where you're going to lose the game".
 
Spot on too!

taniwharugby

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2000'>Winning Team & Margin (10pt) New Zealand 11-20 $3.00 New Zealand 21-30 $3.50 New Zealand 1-10 $3.75 more</a> 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2001'>Winning Team & Margin (7pt) New Zealand by 15-21 $3.50 New Zealand by 22-28 $4.00 New Zealand by 8-14 $4.00 more</a> 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.tab.co.nz/sport/#2002'>Winning Team & Margin (Exact) NEWZ by 29+ $4.00 NEWZ by 12 $18.00 NEWZ by 13 $18.00 more</a>
 
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Some decent odd there.....

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales