How many Crusaders in your AB 23?
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In 2019, this team wasn't good enough to get past England:
The matchday 23 was as follows (marked out those
unavailable
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Joe Moody (44)
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Codie Taylor (49)
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Nepo Laulala (24)
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Brodie Retallick (79)
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Samuel Whitelock (116)
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Scott Barrett (34)
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Ardie Savea (43)
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Kieran Read - captain(125) -
Aaron Smith (90)
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Richie Mo’unga (15)
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George Bridge (8)
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Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
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Jack Goodhue (12)
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Sevu Reece (6)
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Beauden Barrett (81)
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Dane Coles (67)
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Ofa Tuungafasi (34)
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Angus Ta'avao (12)
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Patrick Tuipulotu (28)
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Sam Cane (66)
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T J Perenara (63)
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Sonny Bill Williams(56) -
Jordie Barrett (15)
Almost all of them are still available, but how many of these players are the answer?
I think if we rely on 'experience' (that failed last time), we are actively looking to leave the next WC at the Quarters, and not because of bad refereeing, but simply because we will have a bunch of experienced heads who aren't as good as they were, and even then they weren't good enough.
before people lose their shit, I'm not suggesting we don't use some of these guys, but our tight five (and reserves) are still essentially the same. We have to refresh, now.
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@gt12 while I think the main criticism was SB at 6 and no Cane, IMO Brodie was so far off his game it hugely exaggerated out lack of physicality too...
No point re-hashing that game now though
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@taniwharugby that untimely injury against the boks was disastrous for us. He came back under cooked and hasn't stepped up since his sabbatical
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Assuming Cane and Savea are locked into the starting line up, we're going to need to be able to create quick ruck ball to make the most of Savea.
1 Hodgman
2 Taukei'aho
3 Tu'ungafasi
4 S Barrett
5 Retallick/Whitelock
6 A Ioane
7 Cane
8 Savea9 Smith
10 B Barrett
11 Clarke
12 ?
13 R Ioane
14 Jordan
15 J Barrett16 Taylor (Coles must be too old for the WC now)
17 Moody
18 Would like to see Newell get a go, otherwise toss a coin for Laulala/Lomax
19 ?
20 Papalii
21 Christie (Weber was good last year, off his game this year)
22 Mo'unga
23 ?It would be great if Tupaea could improve his defence. A lot.
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@gt12 I just shake my head at that team. SBarrett at 6, Cane on the bench, Mo'unga starting, Bridge on the wing. Just so stupid.
On experience, a very big fuckup which doesn't get talked about much in that WC is leaving Ben Smith out of the 23 and instead putting Mo'unga at 10 and Beauden at 15 attempting to implement that "duel playmaker" strategy. Putting an absolute rookie at 10 was a huge gamble which backfired spectacularly. If we wanted experience in the most important positions in the backline we had to have Beauden at 10 and Ben Smith at 15.
And it's not like Ben Smith was out of form either, he carved up the 3rd/4th play off as well just to ram home how stupid it was to leave him out.
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@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
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As a few others have said, I would be interested to see how Papalii goes at 6 in combination with Cane. He has the size to play there, and wouldn't really have to adjust his game from what he does now.
The fact is that if Papalii is the bench loose forward he would probably come on to play 6 anyway. So why not start him there? Savea is regularly used as a lineout option so I don't believe that would be an issue.
The key remains selecting the correct tight five to allow the loose forwards, and backs to function.
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@No-Quarter said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@gt12 I just shake my head at that team. SBarrett at 6, Cane on the bench, Mo'unga starting, Bridge on the wing. Just so stupid.
Mo'unga had been outstanding against Ireland (QF). Dropping him would have raised eyebrows.
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@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
Indeed. This is not 2000 and Cane is NOT Todd Blackadder.
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@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
Let's not go overboard with Papali'i, he had an awesome game but he hasn't been that good all year. Add to that Cane has been great in his last few games. We'll need to see how they both go during the combined comp before declaring Papali'i number 1.
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@Bones said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Nepia said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
but he hasn't been that good all year
You really think Papali'i has been as good as he was on Saturday?
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@Nepia said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Bones said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Nepia pretty much. Has Cane?
B/S, Papali'i is in my 23 but Sat he was off the charts good, he hasn't been that good every match.
He's been off the charts in one or two other games, but consistently high. It's not BS.
I note you declined to comment how good Cane has been.
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@Bones said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Nepia said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Bones said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Nepia pretty much. Has Cane?
B/S, Papali'i is in my 23 but Sat he was off the charts good, he hasn't been that good every match.
He's been off the charts in one or two other games, but consistently high. It's not BS.
I note you declined to comment how good Cane has been.
Cane has been great for a few games running, but we were discussing Papali'i's performance in Saturdays game in comparison to his previous ones.
I'm sure you'll get some support from the Aucklanders in the morning, I'm sharpening my keyboard for the onslaught, and Papali'i has been good this year, but Saturday was another level.
