How many Crusaders in your AB 23?

[Chester Draws]

@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

Sparky's 23 to play Ireland

Moody, ST, Ofa T, Whitelock, Retallick, A.Ioane, Papalii, A. Savea, Smith, B.Barrett, Clarke, J.Barrett, R. Ioane, Reece, Jordan

Bench: Coles or Taylor, Hodgman, Laulala, S Barrett, Cane or Sotutu, Fakatava, Gatland, Tupaea

There's no way that a fit Cane does not start. You do know he's Captain, aye?

If nothing else it means picking a new captain. From a squad where the only choices are themselves at the point where they might be dropped soon.

If Foster really wanted to destroy team morale, then dropping Cane would do it. I don't like Foster's coaching, but even he's not that mental.

[KiwiMurph]

Moody
Whitelock
Reece
Jordan
Newell (bench)
Taylor (bench)
Mounga (bench)
Havili (bench)

Flip a coin with Beaudy and Mounga and in reality there will always be injuries so others will come into it (Scott Barrett, Blackadder etc).

To me Blackadder either starts or he isn't in the 23. There is no answer at 6 right now so i'm sure Blackadder will get his chance but as there is no answer i'd like to see them try Papali'i at 6, Cane at 7 (though given the rate both get injured i'm sure others will be needed).

[Frank]

Papali'i is so good and Cane is AB captain and also bloody good that I am having the sinful thought of having two 7s starting with ????? at number 8.

[Tim]

So who do we have in the forwards who are good at jackling to produce turnovers? Cane and Savea are good, and Papalii is quite good. Taukei'aho and Taylor are quite good. Ioane is good at strips and holding players up. Blackadder? Sotutu is generally good over the ball, but has been less so this year. Any others?

[Bovidae]

@Tim said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

So who do we have in the forwards who are good at jackling to produce turnovers?

When he is back, Retallick.

[Mackerzzzz]

1. J Moody 16. E De Groot
2 . C Taylor 17. S Taukei'aho
3. O Tu'ungafasi 18. T Lomax
4. T Vaii 19. J Lord
5. B Retallick 20. D Papalli
6. E Blackadder
7. S Cane
8. A Savea
9. A Smith 21. F Christie
10. B Barrett 22. R Mo'unga
11. C Clarke 23. L Fainga'anuku
12. J Barrett
13. R Ioane
14. S Reece
15. W Jordan

7 saders

Not sure when whitelock comes back?

[Chris]

@Mackerzzzz said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

1. J Moody 16. E De Groot
   2 . C Taylor 17. S Taukei'aho
2. O Tu'ungafasi 18. T Lomax
3. T Vaii 19. J Lord
4. B Retallick 20. D Papalli
5. E Blackadder
6. S Cane
7. A Savea
8. A Smith 21. F Christie
9. B Barrett 22. R Mo'unga
10. C Clarke 23. L Fainga'anuku
11. J Barrett
12. R Ioane
13. S Reece
14. W Jordan

7 saders

Not sure when whitelock comes back?

This week

[No Quarter]

@ACT-Crusader said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@frank said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@act-crusader said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

I’d have Jordan, Moody, Reece, Mo’unga, Whitelock and Taylor starting.

Mounga can't defend and Samisoni is better than Taylor.

Despite his defensive issues, it’s his kicking game that we need. Field kicking is far more important in test footy and even though I am a massive fan of Barrett’s, he is far too erratic in that.

Taylor starting is because Coles is out. Sami definitely in the 23.

I agree re: Barrett's kicking, but Mo'unga has just gone completely missing in every test where the heat is on to date. He's much better suited to the bench role while he gets used to test footy and builds a bit of confidence at that level.

[mariner4life]

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

[nzzp]

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

Experience counts.

Maybe Josh Lord steps up, maybe he doesn't. It's a risk. You know what you get with ScoBa.

That said, I reckon the end of year may be a different discussion

[mariner4life]

@nzzp said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

Experience counts.

Maybe Josh Lord steps up, maybe he doesn't. It's a risk. You know what you get with ScoBa.

That said, I reckon the end of year may be a different discussion

does it though? does playing lots of ordinary tests make you a better player?

take the fucking risk.

[nzzp]

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@nzzp said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

Experience counts.

Maybe Josh Lord steps up, maybe he doesn't. It's a risk. You know what you get with ScoBa.

That said, I reckon the end of year may be a different discussion

does it though? does playing lots of ordinary tests make you a better player?

take the fucking risk.

I'm not against that, but I can see the argument for picking him. Who's showing themselves to be more physical at this stage?

[Tim]

@mariner4life As always, the questions go to who is available?

Senior locks are Whitelock and Retallick. Whitelock is playing pretty well, but didn't look great against Ireland or France. Retallick is there purely on reputation, hasn't done anything this year, and needs a hell of a Super Rugby playoff series, or test series against Ireland.

Tupou Vaa'i is OK-ish. Hasn't shown much so far to suggest a high ceiling.

Tuipulotu has disappointed at test level, and isn't capable of playing a more mobile role like Retallick. (Note to Foster: put him in the middle of the field and get him to carry, tackle, and hit rucks.)

Lord looks to have real ability and a bit extra in contact. Still very young.

Barrett is a bit of an inbetweener at lock, has discipline issues, and is prone to going off his feet at the ruck. Has performed consistently a little better than the other options over the last 18 months though.

[Crazy Horse]

@Tim I have been surprised by Lord this year. I didn't think he did too much more with the ABs than any other young lock might have but I can see now why they took a punt on him.

[MN5]

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

His surname is Barrett. Enough said.

[nzzp]

@MN5 said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:

i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.

Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling

His surname is Barrett. Enough said.

I'll have you know we the blues signed the 4th Barrett brother Kane, and managed to wreck him. Retired injured I believe, despite the name.

Edit: Kevin for father of the decade

[Old Samurai Jack]

Barrett is the inform lock at the moment (esp. at shutting down the opposition's clean ball at lineout) and plays the power game more effectively than anyone else. He does need to stay on the field however.....

[gt12]

In 2019, this team wasn't good enough to get past England:

The matchday 23 was as follows (marked out those unavailable

1. Joe Moody (44)

2. Codie Taylor (49)

3. Nepo Laulala (24)

4. Brodie Retallick (79)

5. Samuel Whitelock (116)

6. Scott Barrett (34)

7. Ardie Savea (43)

8. Kieran Read - captain (125)

9. Aaron Smith (90)

10. Richie Mo’unga (15)

11. George Bridge (8)

12. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)

13. Jack Goodhue (12)

14. Sevu Reece (6)

15. Beauden Barrett (81)

16. Dane Coles (67)

17. Ofa Tuungafasi (34)

18. Angus Ta'avao (12)

19. Patrick Tuipulotu (28)

20. Sam Cane (66)

21. T J Perenara (63)

22. Sonny Bill Williams (56)

23. Jordie Barrett (15)

Almost all of them are still available, but how many of these players are the answer?

I think if we rely on 'experience' (that failed last time), we are actively looking to leave the next WC at the Quarters, and not because of bad refereeing, but simply because we will have a bunch of experienced heads who aren't as good as they were, and even then they weren't good enough.

before people lose their shit, I'm not suggesting we don't use some of these guys, but our tight five (and reserves) are still essentially the same. We have to refresh, now.

[Tim]

@gt12 Ditching at least four of the tight five from the starting line up, not having Barrett at six, dumping that midfield, getting rid of Mo'unga and Bridge, and not having B Barrett at fullback all seem like straight forward decisions.

[taniwharugby]

@gt12 while I think the main criticism was SB at 6 and no Cane, IMO Brodie was so far off his game it hugely exaggerated out lack of physicality too...

No point re-hashing that game now though