All Blacks 2021
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all! Unless you count being the main target in dodgeball during PE back at school. I've still got bruises to this day. Prolly because I'm still at school.
Anyway, English teacher has asked me to write up a review about a book, but I've decided my time would be better used writing out and handing in my maths times tables. I'll probably get an A on this assignment I reckon, teachers love it when you show initiative and throw instruction out the door.
Shit I'm more like Smith than I thought.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
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@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke said in All Blacks 2021:
over box kicking is a dumb plan/tactic as I mentioned in detail
Definitely, the coaches need to come up with something a lot better than this outdated tactic and bring it into play. Smith is doing as he judges fit, within the game plan. It's ludicrous to suggest the players just go out there and do whatever they like.
Have you ever played any sport at all ? it's clearly not about just doing what you like, it's about thinking smartly through different situations & taking the right option... & if you put a plan in place it has to be an intelligent one, otherwise it's a waste of time.
No, never played sport at all!
Sounds about right.
I forgot about the last time I played any semi decent rugby back in NZ where our halfback was some young pretender, Wiri Peepu or something. He was pretty shit so I'm probably not well placed for comment on halfback play.
Give me a few of your comments about halfback play then, as long as it's not about bloody box kicking
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@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
hahaha, fair point.
Slightly changed my username to the same one I have on another rugby forum.
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I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
I agree the players need to be able to think for themselves, but if the coaches have a specific gameplan (however moronic) which maybe includes targeting certain players in certain areas of the field, then they are going that route more often than not, even when not on or the lower pay-off option.
Especially if they are trying to bed in a new pattern overall, otherwise what's the point of them having a gameplan, and then we sit here, beer in hand on the couch bitching about no plan b, when plan a, that is just wing it, isn't working.
I doubt the coaches ever have a real strict game plan, they will I know tell players after analysing games that there is a weakness here or there, but from what I have ever heard the players say, the coaches will lay out where they see strengths and weaknesses and mostly (I know it has been case in ABs) the senior playing group them do a lot of refining. Even in Chiefs for instance ALB will be the one doing a lot of getting timing of defence etc at training. I recall Tana Umaga saying that senior players suggested that coaches weren't even in dressing room in last while before tests, as the players preferred to concentrate on getting their plans finalised, also what Captain's run is for. Coaches are obviously very important and etc, but on game day probably more important at halftime to give an overview of what they can see going right or wrong. I hope we never get to where players are automatons and need to be told exactly when and where to kick etc, and forget how to play heads up rugby!
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
TBH I think thats exactly where we are at the moment, players are not seeing opportunities, or if they are, unable to exploit them for whatever reason.
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
TBH I think thats exactly where we are at the moment, players are not seeing opportunities, or if they are, unable to exploit them for whatever reason.
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
Yeah, have to get our system/structures right, especially in defence, try & play in the oppositions half more than they play in ours & execute our set pieces well, then the players just play what's in front of them with good decision making & executing accurately... our forwards are not doing the hard yakka when we have possession going through phases, so our backs are not getting that much good front foot ball to attack with.
Exactly, it's about doing the basics well, not overcomplicating things & each player focusing on their own role, then you perform well as a team... really peeved me off when we played a shocker against Ireland, then repeated the same stupid mistakes against France, pointless if you don't learn from your mistakes.
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God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
God I was waiting for the “smith is no better than TJP chat to start”
The smith box kicks too much is so 2017, that hasn’t been a problem for years, yes he went through a phase where he was kicking away possession but like the pro he is he took that criticism and changed, you would be hard pressed to see him box kick now without at least one chaser knowing exactly what’s going on and the rest of the line coming up for the counter which means it is very much the game plan
I hope we don't see that chat start. Smith no better than TJP that would be more of a Comical skit.
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@booboo I played 9 about half my "career" but I was more like a slow 6 with a shit pass...
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Funny thread. Would read again
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
forget how to play heads up rugby
This has to come back to coaching, belief in the systems and structure they are trying to play, and they will have a game plan, they will have free reign to play it as they see it while still in the parameters of the overall plan to breakdown the opposition, but thats the problem, we arent, the French test was a prime example of it.
Wayne Smith spoke of the red head blue head (I think those were the colours) with blue being cool/calm/calculated, red being, well, not those, I think we are too much red, not able to see opportunities, and make poor decisions, and instead of reverting to a more simplistic rugby we keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes.
I have a feeling it is the main weakness in Richie Mo's game, he a lovely runner and passer, but much as I like him he really hasn't taken too many tests by the scruff of the neck and tried to play in behind the fast approaching backline.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@tim said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke If he was such an excellent candidate, then surely it would be easy to point to some test match performances?
It doesn't make it easy to point out a particular test because he was always in & out of the team, which also makes it difficult for him to get a combo going with the other incumbent midfielder, but can remember him playing well in parts of tests... by watching any player you see if they have the goods to play in tests, he certainly did.
Since the days of Nonu/Smith we have always struggle to find a really good midfield combo, ALB/Goodhue midfield played a lot of tests together, but never had much to offer on attack.I can only recall about 4 times that Goodhue and ALB ever started together. Isn't that a bit of a harsh judgment on limited opportunities? Regardless, wings seem to score plenty of tries when ALB plays, and Goodhue was shaping up well. Ryan Crotty and Sonny Bill Williams were pretty useful too. The selectors seemed to make good use of whomever was available in my eyes, and Laumape got his share of matches.
Question for you though - how many times did Laumape play South Africa or the 4 British teams? I remember a loss and a draw against the Lions when he came on the scene, but that is about it. Perhaps he chose to leave before he was tested against the likes of England, Ireland and South Africa, so the jury remains out there. Maybe I have it wrong, but I don't think you can draw such strong conclusions that coaches have it so wrong on the evidence presented. -
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
Wonder if there are any half backs posting on this thread?
At least you got it 😉
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwibloke halfbacks are yappy dickheads who ignore reality.
Wonder if there are any half backs posting on this thread?
At least you got it 😉
Have no idea what you mean ...
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat isnt that what we want, a forward thinking coach
It's just like Hansen repeatedly assured us while we were looking like a "structureless rabble throughout the 2018, then 2019 seasons, "judge us by the world cup" he repeatedly told the public, as those record losses to Australia & Ireland were all part of the grand master-plan, after all...
The nadir of Hansen's reign was the RWC2019 Semi where the term "structureless rabble" was taken to a whole new level of meaning. And unlike 2007 we didn't have the excuse of a shit Ref.
We've been on the slide for 4-5 years now and the problems seem to be deeper than just the coaching set-up.
