AB Props
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@gt12 Yeah Moli would certainly help as he is very mobile and such a big guy.
We need some guys like that and a really fucking good coach to help them nail the set piece. I like Williams for the same reason (Newell because he seems a set piece specialist).
Ryan could be a useful addition to the ABs if he help players do that.
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**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because he didn't have athletic balance. static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top tight forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, ).. -
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
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Say we drop Moody, Karl T, Bower, and Laulala, who comes in to replace any of them?
Hodgman is the obvious one. Then Ross? Any one else. Not Moli, who will surely retire soon.
Oh come on, I can't mention him again?
Let's say we really invested in getting the best coaches in front of guys (and I'm looking at the Canes here), then I'd say:
De Groot, Hodgman, Ross, Williams
Lomax, Mafileo, Newell (I'm disregarding Ofa as he is one of the established props too) -
Unless you are somehow 'in the know' how can anyone be touting Newell and Williams? They have hardly played for the Crusaders and for the odd Canterbury game I watched this year they didn't feature. And Canterbury weren't exactly setting the world on fire.
Apart from size, what makes these two special? From my ignorant spot here in Aus it's more hope than anything.
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Think they missed a.chance not giving de.Groot more time.
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I thought the starters were okay today actually. Not great, but okay
Ofa looked alright but was blowing really quickly
The othe guy, Bower? Was so far off the pace. So slow.to his feet, so slow to position. The game was too quick for him
And the scrum struggled late in the game
Massive issue
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@mariner4life said in AB Props:
I thought the starters were okay today actually. Not great, but okay
Ofa looked alright but was blowing really quickly
The othe guy, Bower? Was so far off the pace. So slow.to his feet, so slow to position. The game was too quick for him
And the scrum struggled late in the game
Massive issue
Watching the game last night, and some of the RSA games recently, I wonder if we've got the props round the wrong way. There were hardly any scrums in the first 50 mins yesterday and they were pretty even. However, most of the scrums happened late in the game when people were tired and there was more dropped ball.
Is that not the best time to bring in your best scrummagers? This seems to me to be at least part of RSA's Bomb Squad's success, that they scrummaging fresh against tired opponents at a time in the game when there are more scrums. Being able to milk scrum penalties late in a game can be a massive advantage in getting opportunities to score points, get yourself out of trouble or get a struggling opposition prop sent to the bin.
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Say we drop Moody, Karl T, Bower, and Laulala, who comes in to replace any of them?
Hodgman is the obvious one. Then Ross? Any one else. Not Moli, who will surely retire soon.
Oh come on, I can't mention him again?
Let's say we really invested in getting the best coaches in front of guys (and I'm looking at the Canes here), then I'd say:
De Groot, Hodgman, Ross, Williams
Lomax, Mafileo, Newell (I'm disregarding Ofa as he is one of the established props too)Just saying, the next generation of English front rowers had their arses handed to them by the South Africans yesterday. But England found a way to win. England's props struggled in the set piece and in the tight exchanges, but carried well and brought good energy to the defence and clearouts. They will have learned a lot and will develop from there.
So Eddie took a risk that he would lose the set piece battle but get enough parity in the remaining areas to get at the South Africans other weaknesses.
If the existing NZ props aren't smashing it at set piece time and offer next to nothing around the pitch, then their experience doesn't really save them anymore. I mean, even the Oz propping stocks look more healthy than NZ's right now, and I didn't think I'd be saying that!
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Say we drop Moody, Karl T, Bower, and Laulala, who comes in to replace any of them?
Hodgman is the obvious one. Then Ross? Any one else. Not Moli, who will surely retire soon.
Oh come on, I can't mention him again?
Let's say we really invested in getting the best coaches in front of guys (and I'm looking at the Canes here), then I'd say:
De Groot, Hodgman, Ross, Williams
Lomax, Mafileo, Newell (I'm disregarding Ofa as he is one of the established props too)Just saying, the next generation of English front rowers had their arses handed to them by the South Africans yesterday. But England found a way to win. England's props struggled in the set piece and in the tight exchanges, but carried well and brought good energy to the defence and clearouts. They will have learned a lot and will develop from there.
So Eddie took a risk that he would lose the set piece battle but get enough parity in the remaining areas to get at the South Africans other weaknesses.
If the existing NZ props aren't smashing it at set piece time and offer next to nothing around the pitch, then their experience doesn't really save them anymore. I mean, even the Oz propping stocks look more healthy than NZ's right now, and I didn't think I'd be saying that!
Welcome to my bandwagon. I’ve been on this for ages. It’d have started De Groot and Taukei’aho and had Lomax off the bench with Coles and Moody.
I think Fozzie missed a trick as if he’d given the young guys s go, I (and perhaps others) would forgive the loss a little more.
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@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
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@act-crusader said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
Yep. The AB cleaners haven't been as effective over the last 2-3 years. Accuracy isn't quite there.
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@act-crusader said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
well said. I didn't want to sound too critical but probably did. He obviously had other strengths.
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I'm cautious about Williams just because he is so big.
My impression is that if you're really big you might not have the aggression or technique needed as you've got to where you are just by being big.
I'm thinking Jamie MacIntosh.
Hope I'm wrong though.
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I just don't understand the buzz around Newell. He was rated behind Olli Jager in the Canterbury starting XV and when he was on the field, he did not set the world on fire.
Williams, on the other hand, was powerful in the loose but struggled at scrum time when he was used on the tight head side. Looks a specialist LH IMO.
You must field very big props against the best nations. At least, they can compete physically in the loose.
For the next RWC, I'd like to see a combination of De Groot (or Hodgman) - Taukei'aho - Lomax. ST is already ready, Hodgman and Lomax have to step up significantly next year. -
I'm cautious about Williams just because he is so big.
My impression is that if you're really big you might not have the aggression or technique needed as you've got to where you are just by being big.
I'm thinking Jamie MacIntosh.
Hope I'm wrong though.
god whopper could have been a force if he wasn't such a marshmallow (comparatively, would still crush your average person), he had all the physical traits but just couldn't bring them to bear on the pitch, even at super level really
