Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus Yep mate regardless of what you and I think, the decision was between Foster and Razor the only 2 that applied, and without knowing what was asked, and actually been part of their teams and coached by them etc, how the hell would we know who is best?
Its a head coach job. We would know via their previous head coach results. -
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith. -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
-
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
-
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
yes. His teams are also often good to watch.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
In 2019, yes. Might be a different story in 2023.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
-
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2021:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.You do. He's called Tony Brown. A thinker. Someone who will be innovative. Forged in NZ, but with great experience of foreign cultures and playing styles. He's NZ's future IMO. He has to be involved at some point.
His involvement was dependent on JJ being there
That was a timing thing as well though. He had already given his word to JJ that he would support him with Japan and wasn't prepared to go back on his word.
A Razor JJ Tony Brown trio sounds exciting on paper
Two of those will only accept the top job.
IMO, that was the biggest issue. If some of those guys had got together as a team they would have rolled Fozzie. In JJ's case, I'm sure it is about cash too, but JJ head with Razor and Brown would be fun to watch.
That's not to say that I think Fozzie's assistants are much chop either, but with Plums there there was a bit more international experience (IMO, they should have dropped Stormey, and Mooar should be nowhere near the team).
At the end of the day, if Razor had been willing to take on an Asst. role , my guess is he would have had one and be part of the AB coaching team.
But hasn't everyone been saying that Razor is not a specialist but is a strategist and man manager? That's top job stuff.
Hansen and Henry worked well together, both were head coaches. But these two might be more equals in terms of experience/seniority/independence,
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.Mate we always wish we had someone with the nous of Smith, geez coaches like him don't come along often!
-
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
I just can't really see how Foster had a superior resume.
this is the bit where, despite being in the 'Foster must go' camp (and one fo the founding members, I have to add Wayne Smith's perspective.
Smith in a radio interview I heard prior to the selection basically said you can't judge him on where he was, as people grow and develop. The clear undercurrent was that he brought a lot to the table, and the chiefs was a long time ago.
It's also fair to say that Smith and Hansen are not muppets, and would not carry idiots in that environment for any length of time, let alone 9 years. He has a pedigree, he has excellent coaches who clearly rated him.
I just don't, didn't and feel the appointment process and then extension is an example of terrible governance.
And this is the bit where the sensible decision is to say 'yep you know heaps, but we haven't seen you succeed as a head coach, so go away and sort that and come back next time'
Yes I think Razor was judged under harsher criteria than Foster, because he had a better record but may not have known the panel as well.
But also, we are talking about Foster yet there is a strong Canes influence in the selection of key positions (Ardie as captain, TJP on for so long, BB? Jordie at FB and wing) and while some or all those decisions have merit (not JB at wing and I do think they over-rely on TJP's experience), I wonder if Plumtree has a strong say (but he seems to have a solid career as assistant coach overseas?)
So perhaps the Foster team had more cachet than the Robertson team, I don't know. But I don't see the head coach record, and the Foster era seems more of the same as the Hansen era (perhaps others here see the Foster stamp on the team that he intended to make).
But I do wish we had someone in there with the nous of Wayne Smith.Mate we always wish we had someone with the nous of Smith, geez coaches like him don't come along often!
And he had the humility to come back as an assistant after tasting life as the HC. The original cartel were very unselfish in that regard
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Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach
Four matches into his time in charge of the All Blacks, it’s become clear that Ian Foster is nothing more than a semi-final coach.
In his first game in-charge, the Wallabies were inches away from claiming an unlikely win in Wellington, which led former All Blacks coach Sir Graham Henry to admit that “New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up” by appointing Foster.2020 article, but where is the evidence Henry said that?
In comparison, there are players **potentially** playing for the All Blacks now who either didn’t or still don’t have faith in Foster. This could be a significant factor down the road.Just guesswork?
And I don't remember end of last year people praising the selection of JB at wing.Coach Year Games Wins Losses Draws %
John Mitchell 2002–2003 28 23 4 1 82.1
Graham Henry 2004–2011 103 88 15 0 85.4
Steve Hansen 2012–2019 107 93 10 4 86.9
Ian Foster 2020- 20 15 4 1 77.77%but if you changed % to wins-not wins (losses and draws) it is interesting.
Not sure what your point is? He's the coach and will be until 2023 WC, so what is the point.
I like you bring up records of coaches that had once in lifetime players like RM and DC etc etc.
You or I can find figures to prove almost anything, even Graham Henry who you bring up coached team to losing 3 Rugby Championships. Does that mean he better or worse than any other coach.
We have to live with the fact at moment we got an AB team that isn't like previous years where we had 5-6 players generally at least that would be named in a World XV, now we would have maybe one or two at best? So why don't we get behind the whole team (including coaches etc) and give them our support. I will say the same when and if Razor takes over the job, as I did when John Mitchell took over from wayne Smith (and boy talk about misgiving there!
