All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
If Cane 100% fit, I’d like to see him, Paps and Akira start with Savea on bench.
Nugget and Weber 9.
Havili and Tuapea midfield.
Yuck. If Tupaea starts he has to play 2nd 5, and Havili isn't a centre.
I double that yuck.
Havili needs a rest. His effectiveness has waned terribly.
QT and RI in the centres thanks. DH can be on the bench only because I don't want Ennor anywhere near the centres
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
If Cane 100% fit, I’d like to see him, Paps and Akira start with Savea on bench.
Nugget and Weber 9.
Havili and Tuapea midfield.
Yuck. If Tupaea starts he has to play 2nd 5, and Havili isn't a centre.
I double that yuck.
Havili needs a rest. His effectiveness has waned terribly.
QT and RI in the centres thanks. DH can be on the bench only because I don't want Ennor anywhere near the centres
That might work because if it’s tight in last 10 I don’t want Rieko at 13. Which would mean Quinn moves out on and Havili comes on.
Likewise, allows Reece to be swapped out: another who lacks composure under pressure.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
I would agree on paper...but if you're the AB coach watching the game and you see as many passes go behind player or to shoulders, or poor tackles...are you just going to throw your hands in the air and say it was the coach's job at a lower level...or are you going to coach them?
As AB coach you'd have to work with what you've got and obviously iron out any deficiencies on expected skills at that level.
As a non-international coach of very little repute, I just dial the training back a step to ensure they're focusing on timing and execution. At that level I'd imagine the review would identify if it's a drill issue or the players themselves would acknowledge and respond accordingly.
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
It’s very hard to expect composure from a backline being halfbacked by TJP.
In particular, when one of the requirements is efficient execution.
The first half was probably well made for him, but impossible not to feel Nugget would have nudged the forwards and identified plays hugely better in second.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life We are in trouble - but, it's stuff that might be repairable in a week. After all, we had two close games vs the World Champions and shared a series with them.
UK articles after the Italy match were sniffing blood in the water and reckoning we were jaded and ripe for the taking. I didn't give that much credence at the time, because that was our B team - and we brought plenty of defensive intensity and workrate vs Ireland - but, every time we had a chance to break the shackles we fucked it up - by dropping a kick-off or an untidy exit, or an aimless kick, or a wild pass, or shit handling, or losing our own lineout throw.
We need to be brighter. I've barely got the heart to ask who tapped and ran a penalty under our own posts when we'd been pinned down there? I guess if they were looking for an element of surprise it probably worked, because it fucking surprised me!
My every instinct tells me we would have done much better and probably beaten Irish if we’d played them the week after Wales.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial spot on. The lack of analysis and direction from our backline generals was the biggest issue I saw. But we lost BB and ALB early and no Smith or Weber so it was always going to be a challenge.
Its pretty hard for the backs with 39 percent of position and having slow shit ball delivered to you with a half back who has a slow terrible pass against a fast line rush defence.
I would love to see some people deal with that that on on the fern.Easy to talk the talk until you are in that position its hard to access,As you have directions from the coaching staff about how you want to play,And maybe those directions do not suit what's coming at you.
A decent proportion of the back errors in H2 were not under direct Irish pressure. More the sense Irish were coming at them.
Those back mistakes fed into the possession and territory stats.
Irish were good in H2 at shifting ball, lots offloading without huge penetration (few line breaks). But they were very patient and trusted that opportunities would present themselves as they built the phases.
ABs did that from 65 to 70, and should have scored via Akira.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris in general yes...but...when ask the also say they're aiming to play this broken counter attack kind of rugby...but when they get the ball in broken play they look frantic...are they looking for an organised kind of broken play?
I don't know it looks like they are a bit confused, maybe no clear messages from the coaching staff.
as JB mostly kicked the ball straight down centre field and gave possession away, normally we would try to counter attack with space in front of us.
Jordie kicked quite a lot to right hand touch.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
If Cane 100% fit, I’d like to see him, Paps and Akira start with Savea on bench.
Nugget and Weber 9.
Havili and Tuapea midfield.
Yuck. If Tupaea starts he has to play 2nd 5, and Havili isn't a centre.
The selection of the halfback, loose forwards and TH prop will tell us if the coaches are going to address what they said were problems against Ireland.
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
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When is the team named, seriously?
Is it a Sunday game again, meaning team naming is a bloody Friday?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
When is the team named, seriously?
Is it a Sunday game again, meaning team naming is a bloody Friday?
Game at 9 p.m. Saturday French time.
Team named in about three hours.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman that's stupid...ill be asleep by then.
Calling @bayimports ?
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
I fucking hope so.
I miss (late career) Owen Franks and his 8 tackles made, two tackles missed, 2 carries, 4 metres. It's that bad.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman that's stupid...ill be asleep by then.
Calling @bayimports ?
unfortunately that mate took a different role, so no more hot sauce
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty? Because that just doesn't cut it for me - I'll take an extra 1 or 2 penalties at scrumtime for someone who can actually hurt the opposition in every other aspect of play (ball in hand, distribution, tackling, lineouts, rucks, mauls....).
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@bayimports said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman that's stupid...ill be asleep by then.
Calling @bayimports ?
unfortunately that mate took a different role, so no more hot sauce
Sorry to hear you guys split up.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
If Cane 100% fit, I’d like to see him, Paps and Akira start with Savea on bench.
Nugget and Weber 9.
Havili and Tuapea midfield.
Rieko and Jordan wings.
Going to need a whole load of dog for the first 40 at least.
Blackadder, Cane, Dalton
Savea for when it opens up
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@bones said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Against Cyril Baille you want your best scrummager starting. It isn’t Lomax.
I've been one of most vocal supporters of Laulala, mainly for his scrummaging ability. I am certainly not suggesting Lomax starts, but Tu'ungafasi if he is dropped. In reality I expect Laulala will be retained, but his time in black must be coming to an end because of his lack of impact around the field.
Much like Franks before him, I tend to query just how good a scrummager he is. Does he never, ever, ever get penalised or FK'd? Does he absolutely dominate, or is he just mostly reliable on our own ball, but like Franks, prone to giving away the occasional penalty? Because that just doesn't cut it for me - I'll take an extra 1 or 2 penalties at scrumtime for someone who can actually hurt the opposition in every other aspect of play (ball in hand, distribution, tackling, lineouts, rucks, mauls....).
I never played prop, but my take is that Nepo and Owen are very correct technically in that they push straight and square, and transmit the power behind them very effectively. In the first 40 that seems highly desirable, against the staring oppo front row, who will be fresh.
There are attacking THs, perhaps like Meeuws, but that seems often to involve angling in some way, and can be very badly exposed by a top LH, such as Woody did to Kees. It seems LHs can more safely attack, and historically Joe (and Karl) are very good at that.
One thing we can agree on is that if TH gets muntered the scrum can become a huge problem.
Perhaps take a leak out of Bok playbook and play THs 40 minutes each? -
@pakman said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I never played prop, but my take is that Nepo and Owen are very correct technically in that they push straight and square, and transmit the power behind them very effectively. In the first 40 that seems highly desirable, against the staring oppo front row, who will be fresh.
Sure, but he still gets penalised at scrum time, so I'm just not sure what we're actually seeing? If he was amazing and 100% reliable then ok, I can kind of understand it - but what's the cost for the other 95% of the game? If he's giving away pens on defence, missing tackles, dropping the pill (TJ doesn't help), throwing shitty passes, then I just can't see how the trade off is of any value, even more so when he's not 100% reliable at scrum time, it seems quite absurd.
