All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Jesus, not much of a reaction to a forward pack that got dominated at the collision. They may not have taken a backward step, but one pack went forward al lnight and it sure as shit wasn't us.
but the internal debriefing meeting was great
..because it wasnt the forwards problem
..what a sh*t show
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Righto, the depressing watch continues. 2nd half starts with an aimless kicking comp, and ends with Dalton harshly penalised at the ruck. Ireland attack with reasonable fluidity and our defence is on the back foot, we look tired. Their (small) hooker crashes over our well set defensive line because we don't get up fast/aggressively/low enough. Poor effort at the end mostly from Laulala and Savea, but the defence throughout that movement was too passive, giving them easy metres and momentum. Tired?
Finally we get some decent ball, and we kick it away (Mounga). They give us another crack and Jordan knocks it on but we get the scrum? so get a third go. Our scrum dominates but no penalty awarded, we go wide and Rieko throws it away miles behind Jordie after managing to collect a shitty pass himself. Almost like he wanted to make sure of the error this time.
Back in our 22, so obviously now is the time to run it rather than kicking it away. We fuck it up, Reece with a shit pass to Moody, but what the fuck were we doing fucking around with it there anyway? Ref misses the knock on, so TJ makes a shitty short clearance and Ireland get another attacking lineout and score as Taylor just straight up misses a tackle.
Jordie wins the kick off (been good in the air) and we get a running chance. TJ kills the momentum with ruck dithering, then passes behind Laulala who drops it and now we're back on our line as the Irish 9 kicks well. Somehow we turn it over, then obviously miss touch on the clearance by Havili. Then Havili offside, 3 more points down.
Oh and we brought some subs on. Bit late given how poked Laulala in particular looked and the mistakes he was making.
We get good ball in their half off the kick-off return after Jordie does more good aerial work, which TJ immediately kicks away - not a bad attacking kick for Reece out of context, but in context holding onto the fucking ball might be a nice change. The Irish exit cleanly into touch near halfway as you'd expect professional footy players to do.
We attack with a nice little lineout move, then some poor reffing sees Havili stripped off the ball by the tackler with his knees already on the ground.
Bit of kicking then we lose a lineout due to a shit Coles throw. Back in our own half yet again, but Jordan breaks out and scores a good try. Good from Rieko too there.
Forwards fuck up the kick off reception, Ireland get a penalty for something or other? and kick it.
We get some attacking ball, try to kick it away but Jordan regathers and Akira scores. Irish repeated cynical stuff on the line should be yellow, at least 4 penalties there. Oh they're going to call that back? Haha nice.
We take the points, then opt for the defensive bomb from the kick off. Gooood. Havili a bad defensive read, then Akira a good turnover before Karl knocks it on. Timewasting.
Good breakout from Savea and Havili, then Rieko penalised for holding on. Then time-wasting. Good kick.
Another error, but we're playing catch-up now so par for the course: Reece with the pass to no-one.
Irish illegally slowing ii down, no penalty, then Havili kicks it away aimlessly. We've been doing it all day, but that one is particularly criminal. Some scrappy play, more timewasting, we give away another penalty, and that's about it.Not a great game really. The Irish had a crack on attack which was nice and looked fluent at times, they certainly tried more than we did, and thoroughly deserved the win. That was a whole lot of errors in one game on our side, in selections, tactics, on-field decisions, subs, inability to exit, lack of composure, and basic catching and passing skills.
Foster is right though, the backs were worse than the forwards. Shame that's the only thing he's right about.
What a fucking shambles. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
Bu that was when everything was player-led. So everything was done in spite of Foster. Achievements can't be claimed by him.
Perhaps a lot of the problems are with the players and taking ownership and may have been there for a while. Thought that was improving towards the middle of the RC but the headless-chicken syndrome may have crept back in.
I think when the Abs play at breakneck speed and passes stick, nobody is living with them. Savea's try against Boks in 2nd RC test is an example of this. The problem seems to be that they want to play at this speed ALL the time, rather than choosing when to raise the tempo to catch the opposition unawares.
This.
I've just watched the last 5 minutes of the 2013 Ireland game when we won in the dying minutes. The contrast in managing the pace of the game to eliminate errors compared to Saturday is there to see - along with the body-language, player communication and decision-making. Cool heads and on-field management more than just raw talent.
PS: Check out Nonu calmly waiting for a bobbling ball to come to him rather than snatching it, running a perfect angle to take out 3 Irish defenders and then recycling the ball quickly. Object lesson in Rugby smarts.
That would be the 90 test veteran Nonu playing in that Irish match. So he’d been around the block a few times to know not to panic…
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Really good read from Murray Kinsella. Ireland had some work to do on Saturday...
Lowe's tackle, Ringrose and Conway's save, and Gibson-Park's rescues
Some of Ireland’s big defensive plays against the All Blacks will live long in the memory.
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Oh good, ABs forwards were fine
Moody, for his part, challenged a question about the forwards’ performance in Dublin.
"What specifically are you getting it, in regards to the pack?'' a scratchy Moody responded.
He went on to defend their efforts, when measured against the physicality of the impressive Irish forwards, who thrived on the glut of possession and were tidy with their ball control.
"Yeah, it was definitely a tough night at the office, and it was a physical game,’’ Moody stated. “But at the same time, when you are talking about the pack - as a pack we didn't take any backward steps or anything like that.
"I don't think speaking of the pack, specifically, is that where we let the game go.''
I must've been mistaken that they got monstered in the collisions
Not sure about not taking any backward steps but AB tight five didn't make many forward ones.
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@act-crusader
Yep. No substitute for experience, on,-field leadership and consistency in selection. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader
Yep. No substitute for experience, on,-field leadership and consistency in selection.Arguably the player with the biggest negative impact on the team was our highly experienced, consistently selected half back, who they presumably didn't sub because of all the leadership he was providing.
There's no substitute for good decision making, skill and consistency in execution, and cool heads under pressure. Experience can, but does not always provide that. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
There's no substitute for good decision making, skill and consistency in execution, and cool heads under pressure. Experience can, but does not always provide that.
There's a lot of experience in this AB team so I don't think it is lacking - except possibly in the loose trio. Time for it to show.
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Just rewatched 60-70. We were mainly excellent and all over them 65-70. Some good work by Karl and Lomax (although one silly penalty). Also from Havili. Still think Rieko try ought to have stood.
Agree with @reprobate Irish ought to have seen yellow.
Crazy to take penalty.
Coaching box would have been feeling good with ten to go...
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@victor-meldrew key to that try was Aaron Smith, sure plenty other players did some fine work, but he touches the ball so many times in that passage, any other 9 that try doesn't happen.
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If Foster says the backs were poor then that starts with the service they were getting from TJP all game. I said before the match that the last thing we need against an organised rush defense is TJP's loopy inaccurate passing (obviously) yet they not only started him but they kept him on the full 80.
If Smith starts against the French the ABs will be significantly better.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
If Foster says the backs were poor then that starts with the service they were getting from TJP all game. I said before the match that the last thing we need against an organised rush defense is TJP's loopy inaccurate passing (obviously) yet they not only started him but they kept him on the full 80.
If Smith starts against the French the ABs will be significantly better.
A terrible selection, and in my opinion always has been, but as you say doubly so against the rush. Not because he's a bad player, cause he's in some ways really bloody outstanding, but because our whole game is built around Smith and speed of delivery, and that's what you need against the rush. You can't replace a great easily, but you can at least look to put a similar cog into the team to keep the pattern workable. TJ isn't, and never has been, that guy.
You can see what they were thinking leaving him on when they had already lost experience in the backs to injury, but they were well fucking wrong in that decision, as they were with his initial selection, and so many other things.
I think TJ is (or at least has been) the 2nd best halfback in NZ for years for his defence and support play. But I would still pick Webber, Christie, Fakatava, probably Nock/Drummond/Hall - fuck anyone who can pass quickly and accurately - ahead of him to slot in to replace Smith. The whole 'offers something different' argument is fucked when you're talking about a position that effects the whole team pattern.
Smith makes us a different team. His brilliance shouldn't disguise the failings of many others in this game, but he certainly is the one player I can think of ahead of any other who is going to make those around him look better by giving them time, space, and the ball in the right place. -
@reprobate which is fucking worrying that Smith is so important to this team and the drop off to the next cab is so vast.
They really need to identify 2 or 3 behind TJ/Webber and start working with them to get them up to speed faster (Christie already a foot in the door, and Fakatava should come into play, plus another)
Although Smith works hard on his fitness and his game, at some point he will start to drop back and we need to be ready for that.
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OK, last 10, which took 14 in real time because of 'injuries'.
Key was 70-75:30.
From kick off Havili takes and goes into contact. From about 22 TJP kicks high, infield and to about 35 out. WTF!!!
We need to be playing down their end. Irish run left and right. AB defence good with some good tackling from all the bench front row, and Akira monstering a couple of times. Ends in scrum near our 22.
Ardie breaks, good swerve from Havili and pass to Rieko, who is wrapped up. O'Mahoney latches on, although initially on toes so probably not supporting weight. Looks like Lowe may not have released. Result penalty from halfway. That three points is pennies from heaven for Irish. All came down to crazy 'exit' by TJP.
With six to go Irish field kickoff around 22 and kick to halfway and close to touch (TJP N.B.). ABs swing wide well and make ground but Reece passes 2m behind the supporting Rieko. 👿
At lineout, Irish hooker baulks and Akira taps free kick and makes it to around 38m out. To Lomax/RM to Havili on halfway. He weighs up the options and...
chips it to Irish fullback who runs it back to our 10m mark and ball knocked on.That chip was the nail in our coffin, after a minute lost on scrum reset. In the penultimate 5 minutes ABs were starting to get going and Irish were starting to leave gaps. I'd be inclined to think we'd have scored at least a try if we'd been patient and kept focus on playing in their half.
Last 4 minutes we were in our half trying to score miracle try. Not really a surprise that didn't work.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
If Foster says the backs were poor then that starts with the service they were getting from TJP all game. I said before the match that the last thing we need against an organised rush defense is TJP's loopy inaccurate passing (obviously) yet they not only started him but they kept him on the full 80.
If Smith starts against the French the ABs will be significantly better.
All true. But for me the elephant in the room is the team carried on with TJP's loopy passing instead of doing something different like, you know, telling TJP not to throw loopy passes and maybe keep it in the forwards to gain some control.
There was enough experience across the park and they should have seen and acted on the problems.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
OK, last 10, which took 14 in real time because of 'injuries'.
Key was 70-75:30.
From kick off Havili takes and goes into contact. From about 22 TJP kicks high, infield and to about 35 out. WTF!!!
We need to be playing down their end. Irish run left and right. AB defence good with some good tackling from all the bench front row, and Akira monstering a couple of times. Ends in scrum near our 22.
Ardie breaks, good swerve from Havili and pass to Rieko, who is wrapped up. O'Mahoney latches on, although initially on toes so probably not supporting weight. Looks like Lowe may not have released. Result penalty from halfway. That three points is pennies from heaven for Irish. All came down to crazy 'exit' by TJP.
With six to go Irish field kickoff around 22 and kick to halfway and close to touch (TJP N.B.). ABs swing wide well and make ground but Reece passes 2m behind the supporting Rieko. 👿
At lineout, Irish hooker baulks and Akira taps free kick and makes it to around 38m out. To Lomax/RM to Havili on halfway. He weighs up the options and...
chips it to Irish fullback who runs it back to our 10m mark and ball knocked on.That chip was the nail in our coffin, after a minute lost on scrum reset. In the penultimate 5 minutes ABs were starting to get going and Irish were starting to leave gaps. I'd be inclined to think we'd have scored at least a try if we'd been patient and kept focus on playing in their half.
Last 4 minutes we were in our half trying to score miracle try. Not really a surprise that didn't work.
There is no doubt the game was there to be won despite the horrible possession and territory stats. It started to go wrong when whitelock timidly chose 3 points, which stop left Ireland in front. We needed irekand to be playing catch up not us. But yeah that tjp clearance was awful. He was crap all match on attack imo.
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Why defending was easier for Ireland than the All Blacks
Ireland utilised their numbers in defence far more efficiently than the All Blacks.
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@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Why defending was easier for Ireland than the All Blacks
Ireland utilised their numbers in defence far more efficiently than the All Blacks.
Paywalled past the opening para.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Why defending was easier for Ireland than the All Blacks
Ireland utilised their numbers in defence far more efficiently than the All Blacks.
Paywalled past the opening para.
Key points - NZ defence was not numbering up correctly, and gave Ireland a ton of opportunity.Ireland can count and smothered the fuck out of us.
"The comments of New Zealand’s head coach in the aftermath do make you wonder whether he really sees a problem. Most coaches operate on the understanding that more time spent in possession of the ball tends to exhaust the defence more than the offence and takes its toll in the second period."
New Zealand supporters will need some convincing that the head coach of the All Blacks has the right remedies to the ailments evident in their third loss in the last five games against Ireland. If Ian Foster truly believes that Ireland tired more from their glut of possession than the All Blacks did from making more than 200 tackles in the game, there are some underlying issues indeed.
‘Fozzy’ and his support staff challenged the men in green to keep the ball and use it effectively, and Ireland not only picked up the gauntlet, they used it as a fist to belabour their opponents. They counted all of the cards on the table and knew they could play to width and exploit the bigger line spacings, without taking undue risk. There are some serious questions to answer as New Zealand move on to Paris for a climactic finish to their end of year tour against France.
Delusional
