All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.Iām not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. Iām talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesnāt adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
Is it not the AB's Coaching job to help him,Or JB and BB for hooving it down the middle of the park all the time v Ireland when we only had 39% of the ball.
They don't normally all play that way under pressure under other coaching units.Youāre kind of missing the point which was that players already under Razors overall tutelage havenāt developed skills to play at the highest level. Therefore why do we think he will do only when he reaches that level?
If we can see RMs obvious test weaknesses then surely Razor can.
Yes his job is at the level down but he still has overall responsibility to make his players the best they can be (or direct his assistants too).
Iād take Cruden over RM.But RM performs great under Razor in the environment he is coaching in.You can't really expect Razor to coach RM to play at a different level thats the AB coaching job.
Its not his job Razors job is to get RM performing well in his environment and hes brilliant under Razor.
You can't coach a player for a different level when you are coaching at a different level against teams who play differently.Otherwise you are not doing the job you are being paid for.So the coach only coaches to the level of the competition and doesnāt coach the players to be the best they can be?
No wonder we are going backwards. -
I truly believe the cattle we have if coached well, with good tactics could play far better then we have been.
I do truly wonder if the players think Fozzie is a bit of a goose and have lost faith in him.
One of Razors biggest strengths is his player relationships and the fact the players are committed to him and his vision.
If we can't match it with the best of the north it's not a player issue but a coaching one.
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This post is deleted!
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Razor's coaching areas of technical expertise has primarily consisted of the forwards/breakdown and defense.
By all accounts he's world class in those specialist areas, in addition to being an excellent selector, man-manager and strategist.
Like I said previously, Wyatt Crockett played under all of Deans, Henry, Smith, Hansen & Robertson (at various stages) and he singled out Razor and Smithy as the 2 standout coaches among that group.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
Ireland exposed the outside edge of NZs defence several times on Saturday to make good ground and get into the 22. As much as the defensive effort to repel them on the goal line was exceptional at times, questions need to be asked as to why Ireland were able to get there in the first place. Doris try aside (where Taylor missed his man), it was the AB backline defence that was caught out, not necessarily Ireland going up the guts.
Irish forward interpassing was exceptional at times. V ABesque I'd say. The changing of the point of attack was very good. Ireland and France probably have the 2 best set of ball playing front rows going right now, with the Boks not far behind. Ireland have also moved to a 1-3-2-2 attack formation under Mike Catt. It has taken 2 years, but it was highly effective on Saturday. This was the attacking shape the Japanese used in the world cup to shock the Irish. It had an impact on them that they have learned from and used to their advantage.
Good to see someone else reads Murray Kinsella. Borderline you need to include references at the end of your posts to avoid ye olde plagiarism
I think the reason I brought this up is because Brown implemented this with Japan. It suited the players Japan have at their disposal.
When people talk about whether changing the coaching would work, a change of approach for Ireland has reaped benefits. It helps that a large core of them play for Leinster too, so they have a high starting base in terms of combinations.
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The issue with starting Ethan Blackadder in the All Blacks' back row
Blackadder is not the finished product, and isn't expected to be, but, in that respect, the hype needs to be dampened considerably.
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A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
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@tim said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
The issue with starting Ethan Blackadder in the All Blacks' back row
Blackadder is not the finished product, and isn't expected to be, but, in that respect, the hype needs to be dampened considerably.
Good article. Comes down to balance again and choosing the right players to carry out the roles the AB coaches want.
The tight five need to provide a platform for them to do this though. Put the NZ back row behind the Irish tight five and I'm sure they'd have looked good on Saturday.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.Iām not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. Iām talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesnāt adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
Is it not the AB's Coaching job to help him,Or JB and BB for hooving it down the middle of the park all the time v Ireland when we only had 39% of the ball.
They don't normally all play that way under pressure under other coaching units.Youāre kind of missing the point which was that players already under Razors overall tutelage havenāt developed skills to play at the highest level. Therefore why do we think he will do only when he reaches that level?
If we can see RMs obvious test weaknesses then surely Razor can.
Yes his job is at the level down but he still has overall responsibility to make his players the best they can be (or direct his assistants too).
Iād take Cruden over RM.But RM performs great under Razor in the environment he is coaching in.You can't really expect Razor to coach RM to play at a different level thats the AB coaching job.
Its not his job Razors job is to get RM performing well in his environment and hes brilliant under Razor.
You can't coach a player for a different level when you are coaching at a different level against teams who play differently.Otherwise you are not doing the job you are being paid for.So the coach only coaches to the level of the competition and doesnāt coach the players to be the best they can be?
No wonder we are going backwards.Best they can be under that coach is winning that comp 5 times answers the question itās the best RM could be in SR. He canāt get any better playing under Razor could he .
Geez that would be good to see.
Razor canāt be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor. -
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
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Thatās interesting analysis and essentially it means that in our current set-up Blackadder might actually be a no. 8 moving forward.
We also need more help up front and they need leadership off the bench, or as shown on the weekend, the fuckers wonāt use the players they picked (Iām furious about them not using two players when the others made 240 tackles, talk about lack of trust).
So, we may as well start:
Taukeiāaho
Vaaāi (or Lord)
TupaeaAnd play off the bench:
Coles
Retallick
Havili (who would be benched benched if ALB was OK) -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
If Jordie goes to 12, Jordan can go to 15 which means Bridge can come back in at 14 š. In fairness, if Caleb Clarke comes back well next year, a back 3 of Clarke, Reece and Jordan is possible.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Thatās interesting analysis and essentially it means that in our current set-up Blackadder might actually be a no. 8 moving forward.
We also need more help up front and they need leadership off the bench, or as shown on the weekend, the fuckers wonāt use the players they picked (Iām furious about them not using two players when the others made 240 tackles, talk about lack of trust).
So, we may as well start:
Taukeiāaho
Vaaāi (or Lord)
TupaeaAnd play off the bench:
Coles
Retallick
Havili (who would be benched benched if ALB was OK)Yes, may as well start them. Nothing to lose.
I think that's a good observation that Blackadder moves to 8. Workaholic 8 has worked well for ABs in the past with So'oialo. It does require a ball carrying brute at 6 though (Collins/Kaino). The only candidate for this in the current squad is Akira Ioane.
So if Blackadder plays, back row combos could be Ioane/Cane/Blackadder or Ioane/Papali'i/Blackadder or Ioane/Savea/Blackadder.
So that means there's no place for Savea and Blackadder in the same team if Savea isn't at 7.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.It was slightly tounge in cheek but if there's a bloke in NZ rugby that has all the attributes we are looking for at 12 then it's Jordie - strong defender, not afraid to run hard at the line, good vision and a big boot. He's cemented his spot at the back now where he uses those attributes well but he could have just as easily excelled at 12, a position he's played a fair amount of in the past.
If Jordie goes to 12, Jordan can go to 15 which means Bridge can come back in at 14 š. In fairness, if Caleb Clarke comes back well next year, a back 3 of Clarke, Reece and Jordan is possible.
or Havili. There's probably another good FB I forgot.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
A year or so I go I said I thought the future AB midfield will be Jordie and Rieko. Well, the future is now, time to pair them up and watch them tear the French to shreds.
Reiko hardly tore Ireland or SA to pieces.
Leave him on the wing he is outstanding there, and can play a roaming game much less effective at centre.
Typical Foster take your best wing and put him at centre.
Same as last year put your best FB on the wing.
now we move our best wing and FB out of position not a good idea.I guess it is a different approach to taking your best fullback and playing him at centre š
Is it though ?
It is easier for a wing to convert to centre, no? One of the ABs greatest ever (Umaga) went down this route. I think 13 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch, because it requires so much discipline and concentration. Conrad Smith wasn't fast, but he was decisive and his mind worked super fast to spot opportunities and risks. He was also a brilliant communicator.
R Ioane doesn't strike me as being a great communicator (yet). He is v instinctive which can be a good trait for a 13. But 13 needs to be controlled so as not disconnect the inside backs with the outside backs. If Ioane is going to be the 13 for the WC, he just needs to be left there to develop his craft from now on.
You are taking me back to the Cullen being put at centre days that was a disaster,
Taking the best FB we ever had and putting in a position that made him ineffective.
For me leave JB at FB heās going. Very well there and Reiko on the wing.That leaves who in the centres?
I feel like France could win by a half century and the subsequent review would find a way to excuse the coaches. Something about covid...
