All Blacks 2021
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Kaino was another one that was written off and then, all of the sudden, he became quite good, right around the time he turned about 25...
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@dice said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
I think he's a difficult one because at that time there were so many other good players in all the positions he could play in. At 12 you had Mauger and McAllister. At 13 you had Conrad. There were about 100 good players on the wing, and at fullback you had Mils. Trying to fit him in somewhere was a problem. I reckon if he'd been around now he'd be straight in there.
He was brilliant at 15 in his first super season with the Canes. It is well documented that he was thrown into the ABs very quickly. A few seasons at full back might have helped him ease in
He was a big reason why Fa'atau was the top try scorer in Super Rugby that season.
Great job by snake to find him, and a beautiful line by Ice. He should never have gone back to Auckland. Stay and complete his apprenticeship with Nonu, Smith and Co
He had great timing and ran great lines - it's a shame his hands let him down too often
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader There was a Wellington/Hurricanes 6/lock who went overseas young, and got mentioned by Henry.
Paterson?
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@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Kaino was another one that was written off and then, all of the sudden, he became quite good, right around the time he turned about 25...
i feel i need to add....i think ive probably had doubts and briefly bagged pretty much every player except the likes of DC, Mccaw, Lomu and Ben smith....but even i know the last one is 95% bias
My recollection of the zeitgeist outside of TSF for lots of the player mentioned is more or less in line with recognising their potential whilst young but pretty much all of them having noticeable work ons so critiquing their early career's is pretty fair
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@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Kaino was another one that was written off and then, all of the sudden, he became quite good, right around the time he turned about 25...
Rodney So'oialo was another one. Made his way into the ABs around 23? but didn't start to realise his potential until 25
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@junior said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Kaino was another one that was written off and then, all of the sudden, he became quite good, right around the time he turned about 25...
Was he written off though? I think a lot of people thought when he made that baabaas game, here is a big athlete that was still pretty raw, that knew how to put his shoulder into the oppositions ribs, had massive potential but a bit to work on. Henry obviously thought so and hence why he didn’t select him for the Lions squad the next year or the 07 RWC.
Post-RWC, after a big 2007 Air NZ cup, improvement in his game, some player departures, the stars appeared to align and he became a mainstay for years to follow.
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@act-crusader yes he was. The main criticism was he was too loose and didn't do the hard work.
Sounds familar, actually...
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
DC, Mccaw,
definitely recall a few of our rugby 'journos/comms' calling for them to be gone, particularly prior to 2015.
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@taniwharugby Kronfeld famously wrong about McCaw too in 2001
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frye what did he say?
Basically that they were just giving the jersey away these days. Too early for him to be picked just off an NPC season.
Epically wrong.
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@kirwan i do remember that now, probably a pretty bias opinion too, previous generation had to tour and play dirt track games before playing tests so might have been a bit bitter things were changing
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@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@frye what did he say?
Basically that they were just giving the jersey away these days. Too early for him to be picked just off an NPC season.
Epically wrong.
Poor old Josh. He’d be the best open side ever for many other countries but in NZ the guy that came before him and the guy that came after were both better.
He’d be the one I’d pick of those three to have a beer with though.
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@mn5 i guess thats why we had a whole thread about NZ opensides, so many that would walk into most international teams
agreed, went to school with Richie and was lucky enough to meet Josh several times because Paul Cooke and John Leslie coached my school boy team, as good a bloke as Richie is, would rather have a beer with Josh
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mn5 i guess thats why we had a whole thread about NZ opensides, so many that would walk into most international teams
agreed, went to school with Richie and was lucky enough to meet Josh several times because Paul Cooke and John Leslie coached my school boy team, as good a bloke as Richie is, would rather have a beer with Josh
I probably wrote something along those lines on that thread. I always ramble and repeat myself……my mrs and sons tell me all the time.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kirwan i do remember that now, probably a pretty bias opinion too, previous generation had to tour and play dirt track games before playing tests so might have been a bit bitter things were changing
I think Kronfeld was just bitter…
Even if that was Kronfeld’s view above, that certainly didn’t apply to him. He went straight into test footy in 95. He only played a couple of dirt trackers in his career and that was on the 97 NH tour.
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we should add....people can be wrong, if he admitted it then im not sure he should get too roasted for it
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@act-crusader although there was no super rugby to 'skip' for ABs then.
Wasnt he a fan of Harding around then, who many had touted for a long career.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader although there was no super rugby to 'skip' for ABs then.
Wasnt he a fan of Harding around then, who many had touted for a long career.
Back then they played a handful of Super 8s/10s to start the season and then the old version of the NPC until test rugby started.
Harding was certainly a young talented player but was still pretty raw in 2001. Wayne ‘took a punt’ on Richie rather than on Sam 😉
