All Blacks 2021
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@nepia i didn;t write him off or say he had been, i was asking
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nepia i didn;t write him off or say he had been, i was asking
Yeah, I know, I was just providing the counterpoint to the belief he was written off.
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@nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
Saying he's not as good as McCaw or Cane doesn't mean he was written off.
Which would be nice if that was the way it was argued. Which it most certainly wasn't. It's not a counterpoint it's pure nonsense. He was straight out referred to as shit and not good enough.
"Yeah Ardie's good but not McCaw good." Is an argument used by no one ever.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
Saying he's not as good as McCaw or Cane doesn't mean he was written off.
Which would be nice if that was the way it was argued. Which it most certainly wasn't. It's not a counterpoint it's pure nonsense. He was straight out referred to as shit and not good enough.
"Yeah Ardie's good but not McCaw good." Is an argument used by no one ever.
Nah, there's never been a groundswell on here against Ardie not being good enough. Maybe the odd posters but you get that with nearly every player.
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One thing TSF is terribly good at is straw man arguments.
It's entirely fine and proper to point out a player isn't up to Test rugby at that stage of their development. That doesn't rule out maturity and improvement. It certainly doesn't rule out criticism.
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@nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
Saying he's not as good as McCaw or Cane doesn't mean he was written off.
Which would be nice if that was the way it was argued. Which it most certainly wasn't. It's not a counterpoint it's pure nonsense. He was straight out referred to as shit and not good enough.
"Yeah Ardie's good but not McCaw good." Is an argument used by no one ever.
Nah, there's never been a groundswell on here against Ardie not being good enough. Maybe the off posters but you get that with nearly every player.
Boulderdash. And as if TSF has ever done nuance.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
One thing TSF is terribly good at is straw man arguments.
It's entirely fine and proper to point out a player isn't up to Test rugby at that stage of their development. That doesn't rule out maturity and improvement. It certainly doesn't rule out criticism.
Again that's not the argument. It's when a player is ripped to shreds as being shit, not up to it etc. And again let's stop pretending nuance is a thing here.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
I think he's a difficult one because at that time there were so many other good players in all the positions he could play in. At 12 you had Mauger and McAllister. At 13 you had Conrad. There were about 100 good players on the wing, and at fullback you had Mils. Trying to fit him in somewhere was a problem. I reckon if he'd been around now he'd be straight in there.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
I think he's a difficult one because at that time there were so many other good players in all the positions he could play in. At 12 you had Mauger and McAllister. At 13 you had Conrad. There were about 100 good players on the wing, and at fullback you had Mils. Trying to fit him in somewhere was a problem. I reckon if he'd been around now he'd be straight in there.
He was brilliant at 15 in his first super season with the Canes. It is well documented that he was thrown into the ABs very quickly. A few seasons at full back might have helped him ease in
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Ice was a perfect example of how not to introduce a player to the ABs. Talked up setting massive expectations in the minds of the general public so when he invariably made a mistake the opprobrium was awful.
Pity because the coaches were right: He was amazingly talented. Some of the shit I saw him do on the field. He'd have been another we'd talk about in selecting GOATs.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
I think he's a difficult one because at that time there were so many other good players in all the positions he could play in. At 12 you had Mauger and McAllister. At 13 you had Conrad. There were about 100 good players on the wing, and at fullback you had Mils. Trying to fit him in somewhere was a problem. I reckon if he'd been around now he'd be straight in there.
He was brilliant at 15 in his first super season with the Canes. It is well documented that he was thrown into the ABs very quickly. A few seasons at full back might have helped him ease in
He was a big reason why Fa'atau was the top try scorer in Super Rugby that season.
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@dice said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
And of course, how could we forget Ice.... 🎣
I think he's a difficult one because at that time there were so many other good players in all the positions he could play in. At 12 you had Mauger and McAllister. At 13 you had Conrad. There were about 100 good players on the wing, and at fullback you had Mils. Trying to fit him in somewhere was a problem. I reckon if he'd been around now he'd be straight in there.
He was brilliant at 15 in his first super season with the Canes. It is well documented that he was thrown into the ABs very quickly. A few seasons at full back might have helped him ease in
He was a big reason why Fa'atau was the top try scorer in Super Rugby that season.
Great job by snake to find him, and a beautiful line by Ice. He should never have gone back to Auckland. Stay and complete his apprenticeship with Nonu, Smith and Co
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
My memory tells me MacDonald buggered off overseas way too early taking people by surprise. Might be why he only played two tests.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
I don't recall that. I recall he probably wasn't universally accepted as an automatic starter. Which may have upset his fans.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
I don't recall that. I recall he probably wasn't universally accepted as an automatic starter. Which may have upset his fans.
I see. Saying a player is shit or useless or crap is simply code for "not a universally accepted automatic starter" or "still young but can develop and improve". Very illuminating.
I suppose those comments about Aaron Smith being too small for test rugby back in the day were referring to his kicking game?
Seriously Boo Boo, the level of hyperbole about certain players here has always been off the charts. This notion that there was simply polite disagreement is hilarious.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
was savea written on on here as shit? he started before my time on TSF
I don't recall that. I recall he probably wasn't universally accepted as an automatic starter. Which may have upset his fans.
I see. Saying a player is shit or useless or crap is simply code for "not a universally accepted automatic starter" or "still young but can develop and improve". Very illuminating.
I suppose those comments about Aaron Smith being too small for test rugby back in the day were referring to his kicking game?
Seriously Boo Boo, the level of hyperbole about certain players here has always been off the charts. This notion that there was simply polite disagreement is hilarious.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Might have been his best game in black. He did everything that was asked of him and more, without the brain farts that have plagued him in the past
I'm going to allow myself a farking great portion of smug satisfaction. His class was always there but for whatever reason some were willing to write him off age 19. It just goes to show that players mature, develop and improve. Writing anyone off that young is simply idiotic.
It's particularly ironic that of the 2 players who were written off as "shit" very young, one is now the captain and the other played a blinder and saved the game last week.
I think generally , we( the public ) go too early writing young players off ,
Nonu was probably the one that stands out the most for me , man didnt he prove some people wrong
Conversely there’s also a tendency to hype a young player too early because he does one or two things that we the public might like.
One example for me was I really rated Angus MacDonald. To me he had long term All Black written all over him when I saw him play as a 20 year old and then in 03-04 for the Blues. He made the ABs in 05 and I thought he was our versatile lock/blindside for the bench for years to come. I even said on here that I thought he could be a leader in the ABs.
He played two tests.
My memory tells me MacDonald buggered off overseas way too early taking people by surprise. Might be why he only played two tests.
He didn’t get selected in 06 (despite some big squads) and 07 including not making the RWC squad, so he decided to go Japan in 08. So at the point of him going overseas he wasn’t even a fringe AB, he was someone that played a couple of EOYT tests in 05.
Sure we want these players to stay for NPC and Super but I doubt the timing of his decision had anything to do with why he only played two tests.
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@act-crusader you have a way better memory than me!
