All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Pre-2017, when things weren't going to plan, you'd see the likes of Nonu, Whitelock, Conrad etc having little chats with each other and more often than not, there'd be a penalty won or a turnover from a midfield tackle and the momentum would swing back to the AB's,
Not to be a smart arse - but what facet of the game is this team world class at?
A lot of those conversations resulted in the ABs reigning in their attack to at a time when they were more physical and technically proficient at the breakdown than all other sides. I'm not sure this team has the ability to impose their will like that at the breakdown - or anywhere.
To me the side is more like those 2008/9 sides against South Africa where stringing phases together or winning set-piece ball is not necessarily a given.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
I wish we had blooded Jordan at 15 against weaker teams to see his +s and -s.
We had quite a few games of Super rugby to to watch Will at Fullback. For now, he's better at right wing and IMO should be given priority to start there pretty much whenever fit.
Now that Beaudy has bailed on playing fullback, I'm starting to think @Stargazer might have been right all along and Dave Havili should have been given more goes there. I've always thought Dave was a better option than DMac and seemingly they're preferring DMac to Jordie - all of which is quite a mess - again IMO. (Apologies to @Kirwan for Havili at fullback, but I've got a solution below).
I'm struggling to follow exactly what Fozzie's thinking is - but, judging by his selections to date - maybe we're back to something like the late-80s, where we decided we couldn't out-muscle all of the opposition, so we had to look at more expansive options. But, Fozzie's expansive options are a bit too expansive and frenetic for my taste - and a bit too lacking in muscle. Having Smith, Mo'unga, Reece and DMac all in the same backline is going to lose too many collisions for my liking.
@taniwharugby - I saw a post of yours suggesting we're only a couple of players off our best team - but, when you start to think about it - I reckon we're quite a bit further away.
The team I'd like to see tried - if everyone was fit and available.
Moody, Taylor, Tuúngafasi, Retallick, Whitelock, Ioane, Cane, Jacobson, Smith, Moúnga, Clarke, Lienert-Brown, Goodhue, Jordan, Havili.
Bower, Coles, Laulala, SBarrett, Savea, Perenara, BBarrett, RIoane.
I also wouldn't mind seeing Akira moved to 8 and used in tandem with Frizell at 6.
ST and Aumua are coming things at hooker and Taylor - after being outstanding in Super rugby, looks tired - so this assumes he's regenerated.
They need to sort out what role Rieko is playing.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Smashed in the scrum not good by the subs
Bell monstered Ta’avao.
Having Matt Philip behind him helps. I've only just reached that point.
Having just rewatched it may be Ta'avao has been a bit hard done by. First scrum after Patty T on and Whitelock swaps sides. PT packed very high on Karl, and looks like Sam slipped off Ta'avao, who then has whole Wallaby pack driving through him.
Poor cohesion by Black pack, whereas Wallaby changes seem to have been upgrade. -
There's not the talent in the team we had a few years ago, that's for sure (how many of this team would make a World XV?) but I think there's something missing from the team as a whole other than talent and physicality. They seem all over the place and lack composure far too often,
@No-Quarter thinks it might be a lack of confidence in the game-plan - which comes down to the coaching team. He could be right.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Rubbish call. Karl lost his footing - how else did he land flat?
I noticed Tupou kept up. Ref claimed he ‘pulled back’ causing Karl to loose footing. ???
Throw it in the pile with the rest of the "refs don't get scrums"
Got to push not pull back.
He didn't move. Karl drove down under pressure, and Tupou couldn't go anywhere but slide over him. At that point the bind can't hold and Karl's feet go.
#physics
Tupou lifts a foot to try and get better purchase just as some weight comes on, goes a little back and Karl slips under his shoulder.
What's the penalty?
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
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Yeah the major thing I notice that is perplexing me, is our very noticeable inability to make yards in contact with the ball in hand. So many times our players hit a guy and you maybe expect they could break occasionally, but they get stopped and even turned often.
It's throughout the team and so odd to see.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call. As happened a couple of times against France, the 9 should have just picked it up and made the play.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Yeah the major thing I notice that is perplexing me, is our very noticeable inability to make yards in contact with the ball in hand. So many times our players hit a guy and you maybe expect they could break occasionally, but they get stopped and even turned often.
It's throughout the team and so odd to see.
For this game, that is due to our defensive structures starting to lock in a bit. Matt Taylor has had most of these guys for a couple of seasons now after the disaster that was Nathan Grey under Cheika.
I also think the combination of Ikitau and Paisami in midfield is pretty solid - the right balance of speed and grunt.
Both sides also still finding their feet on attack to a large degree. Combinations take time.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call.
There’s no indication whatsoever that you’re in lockdown.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call.
There’s no indication whatsoever that you’re in lockdown.
I have a very small backyard and a relatively new house with no handyman requirements just now.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call.
There’s no indication whatsoever that you’re in lockdown.
I have a very small backyard and a relatively new house with no handyman requirements just now.
I understand. I was in lockdown for a week and got excited by the Coles weekly specials.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call.
There’s no indication whatsoever that you’re in lockdown.
I have a very small backyard and a relatively new house with no handyman requirements just now.
I understand. I was in lockdown for a week and got excited by the Coles weekly specials.
I'm looking to replace my 6yo Windows laptop at the moment. I could have just bought the first one that caught my eye, but I've been comparing frame rates on video cards for a week now...
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@nta said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 1 Eden Park 7th Aug:
Tupou didnt seem that agrieved when HoooooPaaaa asked him, though
Stoic
‘Just another ref being a dick?’?
Not being a dick, just not knowing how scrums work. You really have to ask how Williams makes that call with no backwards motion anywhere until the AB front row collapsed.
Here are the events - no screen shots or red arrows
because it is all on the game clock per Stan's coverage:55:42 - scrum engages and ball is fed.
55:47 - Williams points to McDermott to use it as everything is stationary.
55:48 - Tupou moves his outside foot to a narrower position to counter Karl's slight inward drive. Important to note here that Tupou's body position does NOT change - his leg extenstion is still about the same, knee slightly bent. I can tell he hasn't moved, because Williams hasn't budged since it was fed, and they're still level. Tupou holds this position for a good couple of seconds; he's stable, shoulders above hips, and under pressure, but holding it.
55:50 - All Black hooker's knees hit the deck. After a slight upward drive, Karl follows him down - all Wallaby forwards are on their feet but taken to ground down and back by the direction of the fall.
55:52 - Williams blows the whistle.It was a rubbish call given all available evidence.
EDIT: further, it was a big momentum change - Wallabies go from 30ish metres out, midfield scrum, to conceding a try 2 minutes later. You're going to get the odd bad call, but that was a bad call. As happened a couple of times against France, the 9 should have just picked it up and made the play.
Tupou's body did 'bobble' a bit, but I generally agree.
9 ought have just to got it out.
Only thing I can say about ref is that, in the viewpoint I could see, ref was obscuring view of contact between front rows, and Williams was right there, so may have seen something else.
But long after the ball had gone back through scrum.
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@frank the omission of Reiko, Jordan as automatic wing and Havilli with another change to FB and then Goodhue at center? It seems like Chris was only looking at players that play in the red and black and I know he is stating that this is our best team if everyone available
and his preference. Jordan plays FB but we want all our wings to be FBs? Havilli is just settling in. Give him some time before we revert him. Goodhue is injured and even so I think he has been shown up at center for speed. I would be comfortable moving on. Enough rotation. My backs if healthy would be Smith, moaunga, Havilli, ALB (his best position), Reiko, JB and Clarke . JB plays well at FB. We only see him on the wing. Also while on the youth movement I would omit Cane and go with Paps, akira and Jacobsen. Ardie could play 7 too but is not an 8. Cane is getting old, is beat up and oft injured. Same with our locks especially Retallick who is was a penalty magnet on Saturday. In 3 years will they be there and up to it?
