Canes vs Chiefs

Higgins

This is the definition of the word possession from the Laws of the Game of Rugby Union
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=2'>http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=2</a>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://laws.worldrugby.org/?search=Possession'>Possession:</a><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://laws.worldrugby.org/?search=Possession'> </a>This happens when a player is carrying the ball or a team has the ball in its control; for example, the ball in one half of a scrum or ruck is in that teamâ€™s possession.
 
Sadly I canâ€™t copy and paste the same for the rule of what is a knock on but this is a reproduction of the relevant part:
 
Knock-on: Law 12 - Knock-on or Throw-forward
â€œA knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with his hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it."
 
Did Tamanivalu have the ball in his control when pressing it with what looked to not much more than his little finger?
 
If not then does he "catch itâ€ before the ball hits the ground? There appears to be very little to debate over this part, he simply does not â€œcatch itâ€ thus he does not regain "possession" ie control
 
The other part of the equation to consider is whether the ball travels forward. If a player loses possession ie control when diving in for a try then the likelihood is the ball traveling forward and the only way possession can be regained, thus preventing a knock-on, is to catch it.
 
Does this particular incident meet the requirements needed to rule it a knock-on rather than the try that was?

canefan

It looked like a knock on to me but we've all seen them given before and we still had more than enough opportunity to win the game

Bones

Actually Higgins you've convinced me now that it was a try. He didn't lose contact. Didn't have control but reading that doesn't make me think he needs it until the ball has left his hand.

mimic

yeh it was a try.. u dont need control.. all u need is just a part of your hand touching the ball, while the ball is in contact with the ground..
there was no clear and obvious reason as to why he could not award the try.. 
 
BB is a brilliant player.. He's like King Carlos.. Makes the plays.. just dont let him do the goal kicking..

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="574386" data-time="1461403579">
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Entertaining but weird game. Barrett was excellent goal kicking aside. Thought Cruden was bloody quiet and Julian Savea doesnt look like an AB.
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Julian Savea's not on top form at the moment, but stupid to write off his AB chances just yet. He has quite some try scoring record at international level.
 
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Crash

Damn, these Chiefs make rugby exciting!

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="574427" data-time="1461416851">
This is the definition of the word possession from the Laws of the Game of Rugby Union 
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=2">http://laws.worldrugby.org/?domain=2</a> <a class="bbc_url" href="http://laws.worldrugby.org/?search=Possession">Possession:</a><a class="bbc_url" href="http://laws.worldrugby.org/?search=Possession"> </a>This happens when a player is carrying the ball or a team has the ball in its control; for example, the ball in one half of a scrum or ruck is in that teamâ€™s possession. 
 Sadly I canâ€™t copy and paste the same for the rule of what is a knock on but this is a reproduction of the relevant part: 
 Knock-on: Law 12 - Knock-on or Throw-forward â€œA knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with his hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it." 
 Did Tamanivalu have the ball in his control when pressing it with what looked to not much more than his little finger? 
 If not then does he "catch itâ€ before the ball hits the ground? There appears to be very little to debate over this part, he simply does not â€œcatch itâ€ thus he does not regain "possession" ie control 
 The other part of the equation to consider is whether the ball travels forward. If a player loses possession ie control when diving in for a try then the likelihood is the ball traveling forward and the only way possession can be regained, thus preventing a knock-on, is to catch it. 
 Does this particular incident meet the requirements needed to rule it a knock-on rather than the try that was?
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 He caught the pass well prior to the scoring action, so that is not a factor to consider in deciding if he scores, the only part of this action to condier is if he loses control; he maintains contact with the ball at all times while it is in the air and when it makes contact with the ground 
Way less controversial than Saveas try when he rolled it forward along the ground a few weeks ago IMO.
 
Amusingly, Marshall not happy about that call last night, thought the Savea one was ok....

hydro11

The Chiefs definitely lost the ball forward in the lead up to the Taminvalu try which was missed. The try itself was good though.

Dice

It'd be nice if an article came out this coming week saying Fatialofa has signed a 2/3 year contract with the Blues, but we'll probably just get an article saying how the Blues missed another one instead. With Bekhuis going to France, we do have a spot open.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="574423" data-time="1461414538">
Yeah, nah. He still does the same shit that got him dropped down to 3 in the first place. Passes to heads/knees, shitty kicking and a huge pile of dumb decisions. Still think TJP is fighting it out for no. 3 with Weber. 
Also, Weber is around the same size as Aaron Smith.</blockquote>
Why ignore the part where I said TJP lacks a brain and that I was sadly mistaken that he'd turned a corner last year? 
I'm aware that Weber is Smith sized which is why Id prefer the no. 2 9 to be bigger. But I don't think TJP should be there because, once again, he lacks a brain and I was sadly mistaken about him turning a corner last year.

SammyC

Judging by the performance of all 3 halfbacks last night I'd say Andy Ellis is number 2

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="574433" data-time="1461426569">
Julian Savea's not on top form at the moment, but stupid to write off his AB chances just yet.</blockquote>
 
To clarify i'm not writing him off and I have no doubt he will be picked for the ABs, but I was just stating he wasnt playing to All Black standard. 
While play didnt go his way, as others mentioned his defence was poor and aside from a couple of bump offs that were easily shut down, he did nothing in attack. He looks slow and lumbering compared to the Julian Savea of 2012-2014.

Frank

I'd like it if Naholo could put pressure on Savea for the 11 spot long term. Kind of sucks that he has no viable competition at the moment.

bobily

James Lowe isn't half bad

Crucial

Just in case nobody has mentioned it today 
Fuck the Chiefs are good!

Higgins

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://laws.worldrugby.org/downloads/World_Rugby_Laws_2016_EN.pdf'>http://laws.worldrugby.org/downloads/World_Rugby_Laws_2016_EN.pdf</a>
Law 22 In-Goal
There are two ways a player can ground the ball: 
(a) Player touches the ground with the ball. A player grounds the ball by holding the ball and touching the ground with it, in in-goal. â€˜Holdingâ€™ means holding in the hand or hands, or in the arm or arms. No downward pressure is required. 
(b) Player presses down on the ball. A player grounds the ball when it is on the ground in the in-goal and the player presses down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the playerâ€™s body from waist to neck inclusive. 22.2 PICKING UP THE BALL
Picking up the ball from the ground is not grounding it. A player may pick up the ball in the in-goal and ground it elsewhere in the in-goal.
22.3 BALL GROUNDED BY AN ATTACKING PLAYER
(a) Try. When an attacking player who is onside is first to ground the ball in the opponentsâ€™ ingoal, the player scores a try. This applies whether an attacking or a defending player is responsible for the ball being in the in-goal.
( When an attacking player who has possession of the ball grounds the ball in in-goal and simultaneously contacts the touch-in-goal line or the dead-ball-line (or anywhere beyond), a 22m drop-out is awarded to the defending team.
22.4 OTHER WAYS TO SCORE A TRY
(a) Grounded on the goal line. The goal line is part of the in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball on the opponentsâ€™ goal line, a try is scored.
( Grounded against a goal post. The goal posts and padding surrounding them are part of the goal line, which is part of in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball against a goal post or padding, a try is scored. 
 
Looks like I am going to have to widen my understanding of what constitutes and is included in the word "holding".

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="574498" data-time="1461475271">Just in case nobody has mentioned it today 
Fuck the Chiefs are good!</blockquote>
From a Canes perspective this game was a good yardstick to where we are at the moment against the competition front runners. As it was we could have easily won that match comfortably but for missed kicks and dropped balls with the line wide open. I'm pretty happy with how we are tracking and believe we can beat any team in the comp if we play to our potential. Two 1 point losses is annoying and hurts our chances of winning the conference but come finals time we will be there or thereabouts.

Crucial

In rugby once you are in possession of the ball (holding it) you stay in possession as long as you remain in contact.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="574505" data-time="1461478130">
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In rugby once you are in possession of the ball (holding it) you stay in possession as long as you remain in contact.
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yep, he caught it well before the line and was therefore holding it, he remained in contact with it until it came into contact with the ground - TRY.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="574449" data-time="1461451061">
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Why ignore the part where I said TJP lacks a brain and that I was sadly mistaken that he'd turned a corner last year? 
I'm aware that Weber is Smith sized which is why Id prefer the no. 2 9 to be bigger. But I don't think TJP should be there because, once again, he lacks a brain and I was sadly mistaken about him turning a corner last year.
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I didn't ignore it, it just sounded like you were saying he'd locked down the no. 2 spot despite lacking a brain and I disagreed. So I guess you were saying "he SHOULD have the no. 2 spot locked down but he didn't cause he's dumb as shit"?
 
I also disagreed that he's got WAY more talent than TKB, who is a different kind of halfback (more of the "4th loosie" type) but has a much better game in some areas (pass accuracy, kicking and defending in particular), is a hell of a lot smarter and is just an overall more rounded player.
 
Fair enough on the size thing.

The Silver Fern

Canes vs Chiefs