All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@kiwiwomble yeah mate got there early and skipped the lines, had a few pre drinks so was feeling a bit warm. Great atmosphere, was surrounded by Fijians and they're just so passionate. Good game and good atmosphere so can't complain for my first test.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
TJP
Beauden
RiekoBeauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I agree with @ACT-Crusader that these guys like Dmac, so I think he'll get a few more chances (I'm not sure whether I think he deserves them or not), and I've added TJP back in there, as he'll be the placeholder until they can cap Fakatava.
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Back on Akira I rewatched today and he was active and physical up until he left (after 65 minutes or so?) Did seem slower to one ruck than Savea but they did share the highest number of tackles by an AB (where did I see that?) Perhaps another 6 might have a higher workrate but to my eyes he was good, direct and physical. But Savea, wow, not just in attack, he was dynamic when defending.
Plumtree:
The All Blacks might have found their first-choice loose forward trio
Ahead of the 2021 Steinlager Series against Tonga and Fiji, much was made of the high level of competition for places in the All Blacks squad, particularly among the loose forwards.
"I thought Akira Ioane was strong with his ball-carrying around the edges of the rucks,” he remarked. “He got us momentum at crucial parts of the game.” -
Akira, Dalton, Luke is my preferred combo. Swap in cane when he gets back and move Dalton to the bench in place of savea. Blackadder has real potential too.
Don’t think loose forward is a problem area. Our props are borderline crap though, weakest area by far. Not great locking depth either.
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@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter I'd prefer Rieko to start ahead of Jordan against top opposition at this stage. Jordan is just too sloppy at everything apart from running without having to link. Bring him in in the second half to carve up, let Rieko do the hard yards.
If you're marking him on the latter part of SRA and SRTT perhaps.
His form definitely fell away as the Crusaders injuries mounted and he started overplaying his hand in the points chase.
For the ABs, I can only recall one loose pass against Tonga and if you are marking harshly, he passed outside when an inside pass was a better option - but, he scored anyway.
He needs to play!
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference. -
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.if he was fast enough, a high kick in the corner, not many fullbacks should be able to get higher than him (apart from he who won't be named and doesn't like playing against heathens)..
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter I'd prefer Rieko to start ahead of Jordan against top opposition at this stage. Jordan is just too sloppy at everything apart from running without having to link. Bring him in in the second half to carve up, let Rieko do the hard yards.
If you're marking him on the latter part of SRA and SRTT perhaps.
His form definitely fell away as the Crusaders injuries mounted and he started overplaying his hand in the points chase.
For the ABs, I can only recall one loose pass against Tonga and if you are marking harshly, he passed outside when an inside pass was a better option - but, he scored anyway.
He needs to play!
I'm marking him on his Tests.
Against Tonga and Fiji.
Where he showed an awful inability to link once in space, sloppy passing and option taking Against a team we beat 102-0. Didn't matter because he scored though eh! Not sure I'll be saying that if we're not winning by 50 points.
He needs to play? Great, that's why I said bring him on in the second half.
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@bones I have no idea why you are beating this drum but you have cherry-picked a few moments to fit your perspective and ignored the rest. One of the first people on the teamsheet.
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@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bones I have no idea why you are beating this drum but you have cherry-picked a few moments to fit your perspective and ignored the rest. One of the first people on the teamsheet.
Eh? Beating what drum? I haven't ignored anything.
Yes one of the first names on the teamsheet. In 23.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
He makes less terrible decisions for a start.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
He makes less terrible decisions for a start.
I was trying to get on the Dmac train, but I think we can't have two guys in the backline (at a push three with Reece) that go backwards to find a gap. RM does this alot, and so does DMac.
RM, Dmac and Reece are also all pretty small, so swapping at least one of them out for JB, maybe two with RI for Reece, will help in Test matches.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
He makes less terrible decisions for a start.
I was trying to get on the Dmac train, but I think we can't have two guys in the backline (at a push three with Reece) that go backwards to find a gap. RM does this alot, and so does DMac.
RM, Dmac and Reece are also all pretty small, so swapping at least one of them out for JB, maybe two with RI for Reece, will help in Test matches.
If you check out the Chiefs games this year DMac didn't actually go backwards that much, he was playing on the line, not sure if it was tigher defences or game plan that meant he and RMo went backwards to find gaps for the ABs.
The obvious answer is to drop Reece
for Ioane and Jordan and size is not an issue. -
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
He makes less terrible decisions for a start.
I was trying to get on the Dmac train, but I think we can't have two guys in the backline (at a push three with Reece) that go backwards to find a gap. RM does this alot, and so does DMac.
RM, Dmac and Reece are also all pretty small, so swapping at least one of them out for JB, maybe two with RI for Reece, will help in Test matches.
If you check out the Chiefs games this year DMac didn't actually go backwards that much, he was playing on the line, not sure if it was tigher defences or game plan that meant he and RMo went backwards to find gaps for the ABs.
The obvious answer is to drop Reece
for Ioane and Jordan and size is not an issue.I was just basing it on his performances for the ABs, not Super Rugby. Even with the lower tier nations it was a problem, be worse once we start playing Oz and SA.
But yeah, my back three would be Ioane, JB and Jordan. JB's long distance goalkicking is just too tempting, and he's a good finisher. Having a playermaker fullback is less important too now DH has taken his chance.
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I don't know if it was injory (edit: must be a typo or short for glorious injury) or luck but in the first half Reece looked a helluva lot more busy than Jordan (and I am on the Jordan bandwagon).
on DMac, there was a time he went back to help BB and I know BB is tallish and stronger than he looks but the two of them against hulking Fijians-they looked like they were going to be swamped-Jordie is that much harder to move backwards, can be useful for a fullback??
Also I think some of DMac's kicking for touch was a little iffy?I think DMac is great off the bench against a tiring opposition and he looks like one of the few who are totally unpredictable and very hard to plan against. But starting? If they don't need his accuracy for conversions? (If he still has that, don't know). Not a starter for me.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nepia said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@bovidae or give Reece more time on the left.
It’s a good way to build options there, let’s us move away from Bridge. And RI becomes very hand for the bench covering both wings and centre.
Yeah, so long as we're not starting Bridge I'm happy. Reece provides a lot of threat on the wing.
I'd be pretty happy with a backline of:
Smith
Mo'unga
Reece
Havili
ALB
Jordan
JordieBench:
Beauden
Rieko
Christie (please not Weber. We're best to just not sub Smith).Beauden and Rieko can cover every position 10 out and, seriously, they will both carve tired defenses to pieces given their quality. That's some serious impact off the bench with no major weaknesses starting.
I think that's the best lineup right now. Havilli looks good and ALB has the nous to build the 12/13 combination. The only debate is around 15, I think it's 50/50 with JB & DMac at 15, but happy with either.
I don't think DMac and Jordie really fit the same style so I guess it comes down to the gameplan.
DMac has shown what he does and we know that if you want a continuity game with multiple playmakers he has the speed to get in the right places.
Jordie brings....I'm not really sure what Jordie brings tbh. He's a skilled ball player and has a great kick but I struggle to find a role for him that brings much difference.More physical presence apparently cos he’s really tall as opposed to McKenzie cos he’s really short.
He makes less terrible decisions for a start.
I was trying to get on the Dmac train, but I think we can't have two guys in the backline (at a push three with Reece) that go backwards to find a gap. RM does this alot, and so does DMac.
RM, Dmac and Reece are also all pretty small, so swapping at least one of them out for JB, maybe two with RI for Reece, will help in Test matches.
If you check out the Chiefs games this year DMac didn't actually go backwards that much, he was playing on the line, not sure if it was tigher defences or game plan that meant he and RMo went backwards to find gaps for the ABs.
The obvious answer is to drop Reece
for Ioane and Jordan and size is not an issue.I was just basing it on his performances for the ABs, not Super Rugby. Even with the lower tier nations it was a problem, be worse once we start playing Oz and SA.
But yeah, my back three would be Ioane, JB and Jordan. JB's long distance goalkicking is just too tempting, and he's a good finisher. Having a playermaker fullback is less important too now DH has taken his chance.
I prefer DMac to JB, actually I also prefer BB to JB, but I prefer your 3 to Reece.
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I’m a fan of DMac but he seems too frantic and helter skelter at test level. I actually wish he was in Japan. He’d carve up for the 7s team. Jordie is the better option imho.
BB is the best fullback in the squad, but it appears he doesn’t want to play there and RM also plays much better without him there. Obviously I’d prefer BB at 10, but if RM is selected then Jordie at 15 and BB for the bench.
Reiko also showed how good he is when free of the “shackles” at 13. Keep him on the wing. I’m not loving Havili-ALB but they’re solid enough and have potential.
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With Havili there, we have two playmakers in a system that suits Mo'unga, so I think I'd prefer some more big bodies and/or Beauden starting at 15 (fuck him if he doesn't like it).
That's if Mo'unga can hold the 10 jersey - he's great, but so far he's not really been able to control games and inject himself in the same way that he does at the Saders. He also has a pretty poor defense in comparison to Barrett - ESPN shows Mo'unga missed 3 last week, which led the team. We all remember England of course, and against the very best teams, I think that issue - if it continues - could become a problem.
As the selectors like Dmac, he could be a useful bench option, but the truth is that we only need two of Mo'unga, Barrett, and Dmac in the 23 with Havili at 12. So, he should really be a squaddie who hopes to get some time in the 22 jersey at some point. When Dmac plays at 10 for the Chiefs with weapons around him, he can be a real league style 10 and that style could be interesting to see at international level.
On Jordie, I'm not so tempted by his long range kicking as he hasn't shown that he can consistently make them. However, he does have a big body that could be used more consistently through the midfield and on the edges. We could also look at Jordan as a fullback and perhaps be able to have Roane and Clarke (when he comes back) or Reece on the wings with Jordan at 15. I think his defense can get a bit twisted too though, but it could make for a very exciting back three.
